Russia - threadbanned users in OP

No need to wonder about missiles and ranges if true. That could explain the air base and the careless smoking incident back in summer.

Who told you that?!!!I

War crimes against their own soldiers.

Ffs-

I disagree with your point about there being two different ideologies. Both sides are capitalist, post-Soviet states. One is bigger, though, and has more resources.

Comparing Putin to Hitler, or Zelensky to a clown does not help elucidte what is going on.

Putin is obviously the aggressor here, but he has no plan to send Jews, or Ukrainians, to gas chambers.

So less of the hyperbole, please, and let's stick to what actual facts we can discover while eschewing propaganda from both sides. It's not a football match, and I don't cheer for either side. Some would like to think that if I'm not on one side then I'm on the other. In this case, I'm happy to be on neither side.

I don't think many of us are going to spend an hour watching what is surely a propaganda movie.

Don't be daft, all armies hate sending soldiers home in body bags. It's why the US couldn't win the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. These days it's also the surest way to have a change of government at the next election (and yes, they even do elections in both Ukraine and Russia).

And do you agree that the US had no business being in either? Because otherwise, someone supporting Russia in Ukraine might point to those actions (and many more like them) by the US as justifying Russia's.

Ah, and regarding Afghanistan - are you sure it was all about taking out Al Qaida? because they sure stayed there a long time, and if Al Qaida was their objective, it seems to have suffered greatly from mission creep.

Unfortunately, if you review your post, you will see that most of your points can be countered by a similar one regarding Zelensky. Who as an actor has charisma, but let's not over-egg the pudding regarding the other qualities you mention.

The only specific point above I'm going to comment on is no. 1, which is sort of repeated in your last sentence. Because the last time I looked, big Z had made a substantial part of the opposition illegal; some democrat he is. Your other points are so general that every politician in difficulty uses one or more of them to distract public opinion from his problems. For instance, Fianna Fáil politicians used to be really, really worried about the Nationalist minority in the north whenever they got themselves into difficulties.

What made Hitler different from say, Mussolini, is the way he waged a no holds barred war against the Soviet Union (20 million dead in the USSR; along with 10 million of Hitler's own people) and how he marked various population groups for extermination (Jews, Gypsies etc). Without these actions Hitler would have been no more than a particularly nasty dictator like Franco, Napoleon or Pinochet. So no, your comparison is not a valid one and you do yourself no favours by making it.

Why would send Jews or UKranians to the gas chambers. Are you out of your mind ? Do you not realise the international outcry if he went down that road. Have you any idea of the cost of building a gas chamber ? And if he did build would it be a step too far for the locals and they might rise up and bring him down.

Putin is achieving the same outcome by landing a missile, a missile there, a bomb here, a bomb there, destroy infrastructure to freeze people to death , etc, etc, etc, etc. he has said that A Ukr is of a lesser species than a Russian.

the gas chamber strategy is ‘a kind of a mass production system’ - done in bulk to keep down costs ‘ per head’

Comparing the above to his preferred system of genocide - by stealth, taking out small numbers at a time, laying mines here and there, trickle effect of actions taken, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc. He will get rid of the same number if not more using this approach. He also does not have to round up anybody also. He just kills the ‘subhumans’ in situ

Hitler saw Jews etc as inferior and wanted them wiped out. He had a goal and so does Putin, his goal is the taking of Ukraine and to reach that goal he will kill as many civilians as he can, he makes no effort to spare their lives, in fact he goes out of his way to kill them. In my book there is no difference, it's the slaughter of innocent people to get one's way.

Killing innocent people is an idiots way to get a negotiation, history has shown that will only strengthen Ukrainians resolve. The master strategist strikes again.

First, it was Hitler who sent the Jews to gas chambers. I merely said that the comparison between Putin and Hitler was not a valid one.

You are repeating propaganda. Putin is a b*ll*x, but he has said over and over that the Ukrainians are the same people as the Russians. His war has killed many, but he is not in Hitler's league. He's not in Saudi Arabia's league (in Yemen) or in Israel's league (in Palestine). The US has also killed many many more than he has in Iraq, Afghanistan and many other places. I am concerned about all of these places, whether the aggressor is Russia, the US or anyone else.

But regarding the Ukraine, I'd like to try to avoid the propaganda and find out what is actually happening. This is very difficult to do with so much disinformation emanating from both sides.

"In this case, I'm happy to be on neither side."

So basically, your stance is that as long as it doesn't affect you too much, you don't really care.

If you have conviction, then you would either view Putin as correct is his anti NATO rhetoric and his historic view of Russian lands or you would view Ukraine correct in defending it's territory.

To be neither is to be useless and please don't just say I'm neither because I don't like war. That only gets you so far until the bully comes along and smashes you in the gut.