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Leap card distribution expanded (hahaaaa) to An Post / Point Point Outlets

  • 02-07-2022 1:10am
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,196 ✭✭✭✭


    So according to this from the NTA, "From early 2023, buying or topping up a Leap Card in-store will be exclusively available through An Post’s 920 Post Offices and 1,600 PostPoint convenience stores nationwide, Ireland’s largest retail network."

    So instead of being able to top up at a range of local convenience stores that are open 7 days a week and usually extended hours, I'll be limited to Post Offices, which exist in old suburbs only (none built in new suburbs in my city, anyways), and are Mon-Sat with very strict office hours. As someone with a Mon-Friday job in a Post-Office free industrial estate, it will mean that I can buy Leap products which are office-only (eg monthly BE tix) on Saturdays only.

    A great Leap backwards, so to speak.

    Fecking marvellous.



«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 84,198 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    Crazy decision, most in Dublin City close for lunch too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,180 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    While I’d agree that this, on the face of it is a strange retrograde move, you can purchase the monthly Galway City red zone ticket online at www.leapcard.ie and then load it onto your card via the Leap Top-Up app on your phone.

    Most people are probably using the app nowadays to top-up.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,718 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Whilst it's not the same kind of scale of network as PayZone by any means, to portray it as just being Post Offices in the new deal that are open restricted hours in old suburbs is pretty inaccurate as PostPoints are generally convenience stores. Yes there's not huge numbers of them, but they do exist.

    In Dublin for instance, there are 30 PostPoint locations that I presume will be offering the service and with this contract it's almost certain there will be more PostPoint locations opening up prior to it commencing.

    Here's the list of 30 Dublin area PostPoint locations, which is mostly convenience stores and garages

    - Sunnys Christchurch Place

    - Reynolds Abbey Street

    - Whistle Stop Tara Street

    - Centra Marlborough Street

    - Today's Local Tyrconnell Road

    - Spar Martin's Row Dublin 20

    - Spar Woodbine Booterstown

    - Costcutter Roebuck Hill

    - Maxol Service Station Greenhills Road

    - Tommy's Corner Shop Cherry Orchard

    - Centra Kingswood Shopping Centre

    - Spar Woodford Walk

    - Circle K Navan Road

    - Centra Barry Avenue

    - Circle K Ballymun Road

    - Newspark Green Park S/C

    - Costcutter Priorswood S/C

    - Bobs News & Off Licence

    - Stop Press Dun Laoghaire

    - Circle K Citywest

    - Maxol Service Station Baldoyle

    - Maxol Service Station M3 Mulhuddart

    - Daybreak River Valley S/C

    - Day Today Loughlinstown

    - Eurospar Applewood

    - Centra Miller's Glen

    - Maxol Service Station Celbridge

    - Daybreak Cellbridge

    - Todays Local Killarney Park

    - Maxol Service Station Turvey

    Without a doubt they need to expand the network before they launch the services in 2023 (particularly outside Dublin) but they may just be able to do that in the time that they have and retailers that do a lot of LEAP stuff may sign up to PostPoint because of that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,196 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    There's not a single post point in Galway city at the moment.


    Do on-line top ups still need to be validated? That totally put me off bothering to learn about them initially.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,718 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Hence why I said they particularly need to up the number of locations outside Dublin.

    The only locations than An Post define as in Galway City are

    • XL Stop N Shop, Circular Road,
    • Mcgreals Xl Stop & Shop Renmore,
    • Mcgreals Mace Monivea Road,
    • Xl First Chapter Briarhill

    And I agree none of these locations are particularly great, but lets hope they have more by 2023. The fact that to continue to offer Leap, shops will need to sign up for PostPoint hopefully should encourage more to do so, especially those that do a fair bit of trade on it.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,180 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Once you put the load location as the LEAP Top-Up app and you load them onto the card via the app (holding the card to your phone), you’re good to go.

    Hence, most people will use that option.

    Otherwise yes they still need to be validated.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,286 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy


    Pretty much every shop in Dublin does Leap card it's an absolute disgrace unless every Payzone outlet becomes a postpoint outlet. We are supposed to be encouraged people to use public transport not making it more awkward for them.

    I'd say fair enough but the Leap Card which was excellent when it first launched has gone to sh1t at least on my phone to point I've given up on using it and gone back to topping up in shops it isn't a huge inconvenience as there's literally a shop on the walk on the 5 minute walk from my house to the bus stop.

    I'd say fair enough scaling back the network if we were at the stage where contactless cards were being accepted on public transport which is another thing that's taking way too long.

    Makes me wonder are the NTA moving to a cheaper provider to offset cost of the recent fare reductions and the losses due to covid in general. They have some audacity to call this an improvement.

    Post edited by mikeybhoy on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,174 ✭✭✭Citrus_8


    I don't understand the frustration here. Most regular users simply have an auto-topup setup with their Leap card. People should use the more efficient ways of sorting things rather then complaining about that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,286 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy


    1. Not everyone is a regular user

    2. Not everyone has a phone with NFC

    3. Not everyone has a credit/debit card (-18s especially)

    4. If the app does not work at least the back up option of payzone outlets are there.

    5. Some people may not have enough memory in their phone to download the app could be an issue if they also fall into category 1

    All of the above are possible reasons for people not utilising auto top up and/or the Top up app. Would you prefer if people in the categories above cause further issues with bus dwell times issue by paying in cash or decided against using public transport. They would save more money if they eliminated cash payments on buses by the start of 2023 and kept payzone on board.

    And I forgot to mention the issue of buying a new Leap card (which stupidly can't be done at a Luas TVM but that's another story) in case one is lost or stolen.

    Post edited by mikeybhoy on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,180 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Contactless is unlikely to be launched until 2024 per the NTA, and then it’ll probably be another period before cash is finally eliminated.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,286 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy


    This adds a spanner to the works of making buses cashless imo by making it more awkward to buy and top up a Leap card without using an app.

    Even though the vast majority of people who use TFL now use contactless payments the Oyster card remains very much in circulation as an alternative for an albeit ever diminishing minority of people who do not use bank cards for whatever reason.

    I apologise if I appear to be ranting but this just appears to be the NTA taking two steps forward one step back, fixing what isn't broken and causing confusion as usual.

    Don't get me wrong expanding Leap to Local Link is a very much a good move and it's good to see these services becoming a more formal method of public transport. However this move is very much overshadowed by this negative move and as I've previously stated the NTA have some audacity to try and pass this a positive move and they particularly outline rural areas as benefitting from this despite the push to close rural post offices in recent years payzone outlets would be much more beneficial to these areas.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,174 ✭✭✭Citrus_8


    1. I'm using PT irregularly, once a month or so but auto-topup is very handy as I don't need to check the balance each time I think to use PT.

    2. Not relevant. Auto-topup is made by taking the money from the bank account automatically the balance drops below 10 Euro.

    3. Don't need a credit/debit card - can be done from their parents' current account.

    4. App is not required for auto-topup. An actual physical Leap card can be used.

    5. Again, nothing to do with an app.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,180 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    With all due respect, not everyone is you or has the ability to fund auto top-ups on a whim. People working on a very tight budget may only be able top-up very small amounts at a time.

    The fact that many people in London continue to use Oyster topped up at local agents and stations will tell you that.

    Any system like this needs to facilitate everyone, and make it as easy as possible to use.

    You need corner shops for that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,286 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy


    Can you name any actual advantages of moving Leap to only An Post/PostPoint outlets. Because I can think of zero.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,718 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Do we know if this award to the Post Office and their retail PostPoint network was down to winning a tender and what PayZone's approach was to this tender?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,174 ✭✭✭Citrus_8


    Most likely financial reason - retailers get a very small commission but too small to make it work so often charge additionally for a top-up in shop. However An Post is governmental - maybe NTA reached a better agreement.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,286 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy


    That's what I reckon too but there are ways to save money that don't make cause potential inconvience to passengers.

    There were some shops charging a surcharge a couple of years back but this was put a stop afaik. The idea of shops doing it is so people who go in to top up a Leap card might also pick up a packet of crisps, gum or sweets when their in and stop people going to the competition if they do Leap.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,773 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    Can you buy a leap card at a train station or luas stop? What will happen to the visitor leap card at Dublin Airport?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,591 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    We currently have the option to top up leap cards from Irish Rail's TVMs in various Train stations all around the country. Going from the press release here; Is that going to be stopped from 2023 or not?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,180 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer




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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    @Mrs OBumble: Leap will always require an "Activation" as the credit and top-up needs to be put onto the leap card directly. It has no other way of receiving it.

    @devnull: The article linked in the OP refers to how the contract was awarded to An Post: "This is as a result of a five-year contract An Post has signed with Cubic Transportation Systems as part of Cubic’s contract with NTA to deliver the TFI Leap operations services in Ireland. The contract between NTA and Cubic was signed in April this year"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,180 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer



    Just to be clear though, if you load a monthly bus ticket to your LEAP card via the LEAP Top-Up app on your phone, holding the card to the rear of the phone, the ticket is then ready to be used on buses and does not need to be touched to a live terminal in a shop or a ticket vending machine.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    You're doing the exact same thing Lx. You're pulling the top-up because the card can't do it regardless of it being a validator, tvm, payzone terminal or with the NFC App. Heck even Auto top-up. Its the same concept and there's no way to change it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,180 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    I realise that - I think that the other poster meant physically having to go to a shop / TVM. The app makes life far easier.

    Oyster is the same.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,286 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy


    Couldn't shops that wish to continue doing Leap payments get staff members to use their phone with the app installed and a card then take payment for it. I wonder would the NTA have a problem with this.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,718 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Be all sorts of GDPR and privacy/security issues with that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70,249 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Zero (actually negative) margin in doing that.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    Hi, I know you don't know me all that well, but how about to input your payment details into my phone. One that definitely isn't tracking all the characters entered into it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,375 ✭✭✭markpb


    I presume mikeybhoy meant that the shop staff would use a company card to pay in the app and the customer would pay cash as normal. The negative commission would definitely be a problem though.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,286 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy


    Could be done with a shops company card then take cash or card payment for it. Might be more secure using a phone provided by the shop but I've seen staff in restaurants using their own phones to check covid green passes when they were in and take orders on their own phone and there didn't seem to be a GDPR issue with that.



  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 5,028 Mod ✭✭✭✭G_R


    The debit/credit card appears to be tied to leap card, not the app. I tried to top up my friends card when his phone died, and when I held his card to the back of my phone and chose top up, it wanted his app PIN and charged it to his card.

    So, long story short, the shop company card won't work.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,286 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy


    Put it this way saying in store top ups are not needed due to the app is a bit like RPTI poles should be removed due to the RTPI app



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,718 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    That's why I really am hoping that PostPoint add a lot more stores before this launches in 2023. Maybe they will, time will tell.

    Do we know who the other bidders were in terms of the Leap contract? I wonder if one of them went in with PayZone as their partner and thus this option was not open to Cubic.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,286 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy


    Yes it wouldn't be an issue if every shop that does payzone adopted it and would have the additional advantage of selling stamps and the parcels service. I remember when Leap was launched not every shop did it initially.

    I'd say shops who don't do it may adopt it if they lose business as a result. But that would result in a period where Leap will be unavailable for a period of time in said shops.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70,249 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    The shop in Maynooth station does a surprising amount of Leap topups considering there are three TVMs - single queue if you're already getting coffee, I guess. It would be quite handy if they became a PostPoint, albeit there's not a lot of space for the parcels services.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,599 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    A five year contract does not bode well for the development of public transport. Leap cards are an antiquated concept and with contactless payment unlikely to be launched until 2024 public transport is not being made easy to use.

    On a recent trip I was able to buy tickets for return tram journeys from my destination airport to the city centre (we need one of those too) before leaving Ireland and travel on public tranport at my destination using contactless payment (debit or credit card, Apple pay, Google pay) without having to worry about buying a separate single purpose card or fob, top-ups, leap apps, currency exchange, etc... and a daily fare cap of about €5 and busses so frequent it would almost be quicker to hop on a bus than walk to the end of the street - totally frictionless conveniece.

    That's how public transport should be delivered. If we want people to use public transport it needs to be easy, not the least worst choice.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,196 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    How many parents are going to let their kids have anything except a single purpose card?

    (They tried a low value multi-purpose cash card in my home town: failed miserably in the first few weeks, when kids spent the weeks bus money on sweets in the first day.)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,599 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    Children / school / college going ages travelled for free on public transport within the area covered by the bus service. How's that for promoting use of a public transport service? As consequence city centre traffic was very light.

    I found this article online https://www.thejournal.ie/transport-leap-card-4300842-Oct2018/ We're still talking about years away before we can tap our debit/credit card, phone or watch to pay for public transport. If other cities/countries can do it why can't we?

    If we want to encourage people to use public transport we need to make it an easy option.

    As a tourist I could use and pay for public transport there as conveniently and easily as a local. We need to do the same here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,180 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    The contracts for contactless etc. have been awarded by the NTA.

    Rollout is expected in early 2024.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,190 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Unless something has changed in the past two months, the contract isn't to be awarded until end of 2023! Which is absolutely ridiculous:

    They really need to get going with this. It is definitely not rocket science.

    BTW some interesting points from the above article.

    It seems they are considering to also change the physical leap cards from the current card to an EMV card. I wonder will that mean you would be able to use the leap card as a prepaid debit, in shops etc. and not just on the bus. And if they do, hopefully they will have a way to limit it to just public transport for the children's leap cards.

    They are also considering the ability to load prepaid tickets on EMV cards, so possibly you could load daily passes, etc. on your credit/debit card!



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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,190 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    BTW Payzone took a High Court case against the NTA in relation to this contract and seem to have lost the case. I'd imagine relations between Payzone and the NTA are strained as a result.

    As an aside, while I'm very glad that the iPhone top-up app exists, I do think it is a relatively poor app and it could be much better.

    It annoys me that it doesn't support Apple Pay (or Google Pay on Android), which would make using it much easier then having to put your card details into the app and trusting that they can keep your card details safe.

    Also it really annoys me that the app requires you to enter a 4 digit PIN code to use a saved credit card. Why not just use touch or face id on devices that support it?

    It really comes across as a least effort app.

    Finally sohludn't they just integrate this functionality into a single TFI app, along with the Journey Planner app and the TFI Go app. One app for all your transport needs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,286 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy


    It'll be an absolute nightmare when this happens after the move to An Post is complete. https://twitter.com/TFIupdates/status/1546767346269929472?t=Tm_lCm087ios7HcbnnqAeg&s=19



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,286 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy


    What's the story with this move. It's December now and I haven't seen much advertisement of it by the NTA to the general public or much expansion to the Post Point network.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,334 ✭✭✭p_haugh


    Seems to have happened already. Was in the newsagents today and someone asked to top up their leap card, cashier told them that they would need to go to a shop that offers PostPoint to do it now.

    Strange that there was no official announcement, or if there was it wasn't greatly advertised...



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    The contract with Cubic referenced earlier in the thread came into place last week.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,334 ✭✭✭p_haugh


    Thanks for that.

    Still mad how the NTA/TFI haven't released any form of statement or announcement that this change has come into effect, a lot of people will be finding out the hard way.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,180 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    I’d have thought that was par for the course if I’m being honest.



  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,403 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    The official launch is this week. Not sure why it's late.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,196 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Mr O'Bumble topped up at a Spar on Tuesday, but his card balance display on my phone says the topup was at An Post.

    Fwiw



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,033 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    That'd be expected for a transaction going through Post Point.

    Anyway this nonsense is what finally prompted my OH to give up on topping up in shops and use the app.

    In Cavan there was a great fire / Judge McCarthy was sent to inquire / It would be a shame / If the nuns were to blame / So it had to be caused by a wire.



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