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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,135 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    Russia have moved their ships in the Black Sea in preparation for more missile attacks on Kyiv.


    Utter scumbags.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,026 ✭✭✭jmreire


    They conveniently forgot to mention conscription for military age (or even under / over) men and women!!! And Yes, I know that in normal countrys, you cannot conscript non-nationals, but remember this is Russia, and conventional laws do not apply!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,026 ✭✭✭jmreire


    And to kill not just 100'000 people, but to kill 5 or even 10 million would not bother the top brass either.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Thats what many are worried about,and the hate towards the west wont be changed over night either,not after Ukraine,that will take atleast a generation to fix if the democracy continue in Russia and things changes to more western friendly politics.

    And Russia wont have many allies left either,so the alternative will be other terrorist or totalitarian states that probably would love to get their hands on Russian nuclear weapons and technology.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    General feeling here seems to be that all things considered putin is a moderate and the worst is yet to come



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,026 ✭✭✭jmreire


    I doubt it, since day one of the invasion, any discussion or reference to the "Special Military Operation" was punishable wit 15 years prison. Little old ladies holding white flowers, or blank bits of paper were arrested within minutes of appearing on the streets. Nope, this is just another turn of the screw on the general population.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,676 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Its not about whether it would bother anyone - I highly doubt it would too. And its also not about trusting China.

    100,000 would be an order of magnitude greater than the highest estimate given by a foreign body present, which in and of itself is already an outlier. There is a vanishingly small likelihood it is the correct number and a simple correction would have stopped all this back and forth. It was a horrific and horrendous event but a casual relationship with the truth is not a good thing from anyone (and yes Russia is worse etc etc), nor is trying to rationalise a way out of the mistake because you don't like the people correcting you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,026 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Yes, but by the time that happens, what will be left of Russia militarily (nuclear options aside, and even that scenario is well played out, and has not changed) not to mention economically? The death toll from the oligarch's civil war will be horrendous, In one part of TraumaZone, it got so bad that the opposing factions had their own graveyards. And that would be Childsplay if they go to full scale war with each other for the grand prize, Russia itself. What Putin had at his disposal when he started the invasion, has been whittled down dramatically.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,549 ✭✭✭Raoul Duke III


    'Putin is a moderate'. That's quite the statement to make about the man who is the undisputed apex of the Russian power vertical and has total control over every initiative, home and abroad.

    Maybe if you added the words 'compared to Stalin or Hitler'.....



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,676 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I'm not sure on what level Putin could be called a "moderate" either. An unprovoked war on their neighbour which has devolved into lobbing missiles into civilian areas. Never mind his history in Chechnya and other places. At best he displays a veneer of moderation for public consumption.

    Unless the definition of moderate has become "doesn't start a nuclear war".



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,026 ✭✭✭jmreire


    They do it because whatever will happen down the road, for now they have to follow the Dear Leaders orders and be seen to be the best at it. Kadyrov is playing a different game, I think. Without Putin's support, his hold on Chechnya is tenuous, and there are plenty of Chechens who would like to see him gone. Speaking of Chechnya, in Grozny recently thousands turned up to watch the execution of two rapists. They were shot by members of the women's family. The Clan system is alive and well in the Caucasus generally, but especially in Chechnya, a fact that Putin's conscript recruiters would do well to remember.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,026 ✭✭✭jmreire



    Yes, and when you factor in the Clan system you will have all the hate you need. Vendettas going back generations. In the former YU, Tito kept all the different states together. Once he went, they all separated into their historical entities, and civil war broke out. Same thing could well happen in Russia when Putin goes



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,441 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Quite a few rumours that the Belarussian foreign minister was killed on the Kremlin's orders (there's talk he may have been reaching out to the West) and that Lukashenko now fears for his own safety.

    Another persistent rumour doing the rounds is that Putin may be planning to annex Belarus. Stage some pseudo-Anschluss stunt where Belarus 'asks' if it can become part of greater Russia.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,549 ✭✭✭Raoul Duke III


    All the news outlets seem to be quite circumspect and are using phrases like 'died suddenly'. Lukashenko does seem to be walking a tightrope between staying loyal to his Kremlin patron (without whom he'd be gone by the end of the day) and not committing Belarus armed forces directly...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,441 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    If the plan is genuinely for an 'Anschluss' of some description. then Lukashenko could be in big trouble (as Putin wouldn't even need him any longer). I doubt he would be okay with his foreign minister being murdered by the Kremlin and is probably freaked right now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,196 ✭✭✭vixdname


    Given the absolute and blatant disregard Russia has shown for Ukrainian civilian lives and property, I wouldn't be too surprised if most Ukrainian civilians were more than happy to have similar actions carried out on their Russian civilian counterparts....If you don't believe so, feel free to carry on living in your world of rainbows and unicorns



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,549 ✭✭✭Raoul Duke III


    I can't think of any faster and more efficient way for Ukraine to destroy their Western support, it would be stupidity on a grand scale.

    Ukraine is (as much anyone can in the fog of war) largely adhering to the Geneva Conventions and the rule of war. Russia is very demonstrably not. Part of the T&Cs of continuing Western support is that this situation continues. Any barbarism along the lines you are suggesting would likely gravely weaken Ukraine's strategic position. As we have seen throughout this conflict, Ukraine has been very smart in how it fights this war.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,334 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    Saw an interesting one on RTEs Eurovision widget on their website few days ago ago (where they collect a selection of translations of articles & videos from different state media around Europe).

    What has the war revealed about the Putin regime?


    It has demonstrated two things about Putin and the top people in Russia that the West continues to underestimate. First, they [Russians] think in asymmetrical terms. When the Ukrainians defeat the first offensive, a lot of people think that maybe it’s over, and now, we can talk about an off-ramp for Putin. No. They [Russians] then adopt a different strategy. And when you defeat that, they’ll adopt the third strategy. Every time they lose a game, they start another game that you’re not expecting.


    The last two of these games have involved, first, the shift to attacks on critical infrastructure, particularly energy infrastructure [...]. Then, this is just beginning but very serious – Iran’s entry into the fighting. It looks as if it will now be followed by the deployment and employment of Iranian ballistic missiles, against which Ukrainians do not appear to have any and even NATO has limited defences.

    In other words in his judgement Putin/Russian regime have no intentions of giving up on the goal(s), or agreeing this "peace" some people dream of if only Ukraine/Zelensky "sees sense" etc.

    As they are contained (which has been NATO approach so far), they adjust and try a new tactic while they can. Really the only way out of this (IMO) is for NATO to (edit: help Ukraine) to raise cost of war till it becomes intolerable.

    Give Ukraine all the conventional weapons it needs with few limits to wreck the Russian military even more severely, in Ukraine, in the Black Sea, maybe even into Belarus/Russian airspace. Would change Russia's calcuations quite a bit if they could reach out over the border and down even just a handful of the old bombers firing missiles or sink a Russian ship or 2 further out in the Black sea (if there's some NATO weapon Ukraine could be provided to do this - no military/weapons expert me?). Turn the screw on Russia a couple more turns.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,549 ✭✭✭Raoul Duke III


    I do. I was given them by a mysterious figure called 'Sore Throat' in the Arnotts car park one dark evening.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,196 ✭✭✭vixdname


    But Im sure it wont come as a big surprise to you either when you hear that the US will spend $142 billion over the 2021–2030 period to maintain their Nuclear arsenal - So just imaging what they've spent on their upkeep since the 70s



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,449 ✭✭✭nigeldaniel


    I would not say Putin is a moderate at all myself. the question is very much about Russia and not really who takes over after him. Putin's time in charge has done so much damage that it's almost impossible to predict what comes next. the real issue is if Russia falls apart which is a possibility, what becomes of its stockpile of WMD's? Putin mark 2 or a more west-leaning President who would have a hard time keeping the doors locked in certain WMD bunkers. Putin's legacy is Russia now has something like 100 very very rich old guys with no moral compass. Wagner, I would take an educated guess is not the only private army operating in Russia. The great irony in all this is... the international community may well have to consider going into Russia in the event of a total breakdown in law and order to stop WMDs from falling into the hands of every mad mullar and his dog. All this is on account of Putin's crazy notions of his own greatness.

    Putin's gift to the world is he is halfway to creating 100 Osama Bin Ladens. That's what is worrying a lot of us.

    Dan.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,196 ✭✭✭vixdname


    We know what state the bear is in. Its quite telling when they have to resort to begging Iran and NK for 2nd rate weaponry or they have to start taking Nuclear war heads off their cruise missiles only to replace them with ballast and a small conventional war head to keep their attack on civilians going for another while....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,632 ✭✭✭timmyntc



    Wagnerites making gains south of bakhmut

    Who could have seen this coming...



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Been reading about the front lines at Bakhmut. Seems like both sides are well dug in

    Its First World War sh1t. Soldiers in muddy trenches, only tree stumps between them, and people hiding out in flooded basements of destroyed buildings.

    its astonishing to me that with all the modern machines, and remote capabilities, there are thousands of guys fighting like it was 100 years ago



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    And in an hour they are all dead ,and bakhmut is still under the full control of Ukrainian forces.

    No victories today comrades



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    So your suggesting that Ukraine should retaliate in kind? Apart from losing the moral high ground it currently has, what do you think will happen to Western support for Ukraine as a consequence?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,632 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Well those tweets confirming russian gains were posted this morning - no news on a counter attack yet.


    Also even liveuamap have updated the frontline to show the russian gain south of bakhmut - and they have a very pro-ua slant so its clearly not looking good there.

    IMG_20221128_170535.jpg

    Just because you dont like something, doesnt make it not true



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    russia should well remember what happens to an army that splits and fights on multiple different fronts.



This discussion has been closed.
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