Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Softening house market?

1117118120122123145

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 827 ✭✭✭farmingquestion


    Oh that's true. Friend bought a house recently and he's got a woman right away.

    From the look of me you wouldn't think I had much...drive an old car (good enough for me) and went on a date with this one. She was kinda cool in the messages after so I knew she wasn't that interested but then she asked my job and I told her and she said I must have money and I could imagine her sitting up in her chair then. The texts became longer, and more interested 🤣

    I'd rather be single than have someone be with me for the money



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,584 ✭✭✭DataDude


    Interesting. I’d been observing the opposite. We bought in that range about 6 months ago and I still keep somewhat of an eye. North Wicklow area.

    Still terrible supply but literally nothing has gone sale agreed in the last 2 months. Few crackers had price reductions too like this one, which would have gone miles over original asking (1.4) a few months back.

    https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/2-lisboy-killincarrig-delgany-co-wicklow/4638172



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 210 ✭✭Mr Hindley


    I have a hunch - and it's nothing more concrete than that, just based on observation - that things might actually be picking up again a little. Certainly, the better properties are still going sale agreed quickly, and if anything, it feels like fewer properties are lingering than before. I don't have anything solid to back that up, though.

    Supply certainly trending back down.

    image.png




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,451 ✭✭✭herbalplants


    Me thinks Eclectic Econometrics needs to go to Specsavers.

    Remember the shills only get paid when you react to them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,313 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Arent, you contradicting yourself?


    "Buy NOW!"

    But then you admit it was a mistake.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,313 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    I think that poster has been found out and wants to show off. Why? I do not know, considering he messed up his own experience on the property ladder.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,313 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    I dont believe you.

    In 2006 you would have been 26, yet you saved 50k, while also drinking the **** out of it and travelling the world?

    While you had a starting wage of 12,500 pounds and spend 500 a month on rent?

    Sorry, it doesn't compute.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,327 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    I don't think they were showing off. I think they just weren't appreciating the change in environment, and maybe over-attributing their own achievements to some "sacrifices" they felt they made



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,327 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    And I wouldn't be taking any glee from anyone else having difficulties in the property ladder. Someone in their mid-20's who has grown up in the middle of an asset bubble where things are going mental and everyone is pushing money at them left right and centre isn't necessary well placed to realise any risks. That is why certain lending rules were brought in. You shouldn't need lending limits if the banks were lending responsibly. They were not though.


    As I mentioned above, I know someone who left college with bank loans totaling multiples of 5 figures. Interest rate was over 10% on those loans which was penal at the time. It wasn't that the money was needed for survival, just that the Bank kept offering more and more and it was a very easy trap to fall into.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,451 ✭✭✭herbalplants


    The issue with new generation is rent. Rents are too high. The big culprit is the tax. If taxes for landlords will be lowered to 20-25%, the rents will come down. Plus proper regulation to protect landlords. This will improve the current situation.

    Remember the shills only get paid when you react to them.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 743 ✭✭✭bamayang


    I don’t think they would come down. That additional ‘profit’ would go into the landlords pocket. It would surely improve supply, as more would rush to get onto the ladder, but that supply would take years to materialise.

    but in the short term I think there would be no reduction in rents, and house prices would likely increase as landlords would buy more homes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,327 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Not at all. If tax comes down then it just makes renting out houses more lucrative. Which will just increase the price of houses



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,451 ✭✭✭herbalplants


    By the way, I am not a landlord.

    The rent market is extremely dysfunctional. Madness with strangers sharing rooms for exorbitant prices.

    There should be a way of building small units flats with communal areas and rented at appropriate prices (obviously lower). This way, would allow people to save for a home.

    Remember the shills only get paid when you react to them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭mcsean2163


    I think the problem is the risk associated with being a landlord.

    It can be 2 years to evict a tenant that decides not to pay and destroys a house. This badly affects good tenants as they are paying for that risk too. A situation has now evolved where REITs are taking the risk and the money instead of going intro the Irish economy to be taxed and reinvested ends up in Canada or elsewhere.

    Tenants decide not to pay, should probably be 6 months max. The tax of landlords in Ireland could then go to building state accommodation to house tenants that refuse to pay rent so they don't end up homeless.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 743 ✭✭✭drogon.


     A situation has now evolved where REITs are taking the risk and the money instead of going intro the Irish economy to be taxed and reinvested ends up in Canada or elsewhere.

    The same way how Ireland has become a tax heaven for MNC to funnel all their EU revenues through their Irish shell companies ?

    In terms of risk, all these REIT's can make a killing when the economy is doing well, with all their apartments easily bring in over €2k rent a month. I read not too long ago that Ireland was the third largest place for REIT's to invest in the world, crazy to think for a small country like ours. Assuming if/when **** hits the fan, will be interesting to see how these REIT's get along. IT article was saying about 31% of assets owned by these REIT have borrowing of over 60%.

    Not to add by another figure from last year that over 40% of renters get some sort of support/subsidy from the government. All great stuff, as long as the corporate tax from these MNC keeps flowing in as we more or less are spending everything we get and have nothing put aside.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 743 ✭✭✭bamayang


    Do reit’s pay 12% corporation tax on rental profit?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,327 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    Regardless of what any company pays on its profit, when any of that profit is disbursed to the shareholders, it is taxed at their marginal rate when it hits their pocket.


    There is a complaint alright about non-residents and double taxation treaties, but that is besides the point.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 743 ✭✭✭drogon.


    You’d be surprised but most don’t pay any tax. It is quiet complex mess as usual, but the below article explains how REITs can pay no tax here and foreign shareholders/investors of said REITs can more or less write off most of their tax obligations too.





  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,082 ✭✭✭Jonnyc135


    Talking to a guy who does mortgages for AIB, he reckons alot of people are waiting till January to get the new bollox 4 times limit. He reckons prices will go up again come start of year regardless of interest rates due to this. He also said it was one of the worst decisions the Central Bank could have made.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,327 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    Many might not pay any Irish Income Tax. They will be subject to tax in their home country though.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 743 ✭✭✭drogon.


    I am sure most will find plenty of additional loop holes to pay no tax in their home country.

    But either way the system is just rigged against anyone who isn’t a REIT in the rental market. These REIT need high rents (more profit) for the model to work, all fine when economy is working fine. Will be interesting to see how it plays out when it ain’t. Time will tell.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,327 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    That's between them and the tax authorities in their own countries.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,082 ✭✭✭Jonnyc135


    I would be fearful if things go south then the government will step in and stop these REITs bleeding and buy some housing stock for top dollar instead of letting them collapse and buying them for a hell of alot cheaper in bulk.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,687 ✭✭✭riddles


    As long as people can come here claiming international asyluM under the pre text of seeking a better life we can never build enough houses. Specially when they are free. Huge arrears in council houses too. None of this ever gets mentioned.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,327 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    I think you are confusing the meaning of "pretext".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 743 ✭✭✭drogon.


    I agree. But just find it funny how the Irish government are screwing over other EU countries with legal loopholes to help them dodge tax. At the same time allowing it to happen to its own citizens in the pretence of these REIT being the answer to Irish housing problem.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 743 ✭✭✭drogon.


    I would get the popcorn out as that is what will happen if FG is in power when it happens. Again that is assuming we have money to buy them, considering we are spending every corporation tax we taken in as they come in. With nothing put aside.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,289 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    People get wet dreams about REITs collapsing. How will that happen. While there may be outliers most REITs are owned by pension funds. They are not leveraged. It's pension fund money.

    These property funds are dispersed they have properties in Spain, Germany, the US, South Africa and probably in Timbuktu as well. There is usually a mixture of commercial and residential. If it goes up in one place it goes down in another the yield mostly decides the value.

    Properties like these usually move between funds and high net worth individuals. The Fireman's pension fund in New York, Toronto or Timbuktu will not be selling these units in ones or two's ( actually Irish law nearly precludes this at present) they will sell them as one lot probably mixed in with other properties to the teachers pension fund of Marakesh or a private fund.

    Do not worry you will not be getting you grubby hands on one

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,082 ✭✭✭Jonnyc135


    If pensions funds were not leveraged then why were they getting margin calls in England a couple of weeks ago.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,289 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    My understanding is that is mostly on the bonds market. The problem was in the UK and is mostly to do with Brexit and Truss's budget.

    It was not over borrowing as such it was gauarantees they have to/fir hedges that were guaranteed by longterm UK bonds they held. There was a movement of 0.3% on longterm UK government bonds biggest movement in 50 years and the highest rate in 20 years.

    And because of the risk of there collapse the bank of England moved in to save the day......not the Irish government imagine that.

    But even if it lead to a sell off these properties would move to another fund or investment vehicle.

    SherryFitz would not be selling them one by one

    Slava Ukrainii



This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement