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Dairy Calves 2024

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,356 ✭✭✭green daries


    My post was supposed to be linked to grass post bass.....sorry I thought it was. Anyways I totally agree that it's a small cohort of farmers have their heads in the sand .......I find the idea of bobbying calves that a lot of aren't looked after properly before hand repulsive. It's not the way I was brought up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 378 ✭✭trg


    Be as good as any maybe. How would you be fixed if you got locked up with them before sale?



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,897 Mod ✭✭✭✭Siamsa Sessions


    I might take it as a sign and start milking them myself 😀

    Trading as Sullivan’s Farm on YouTube



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,225 ✭✭✭charolais0153


    If the stock are fit at 20 months. Can’t see it paying to put them in shed again



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,212 ✭✭✭Good loser


    The alternative to calf slaughter is a whole list of boring, costly, tiresome, pernickety regulations with the familiar enforcement mechanisms.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,329 ✭✭✭✭mahoney_j


    Bang on …saying that for a while …dairy farmers can’t have it all ..dbi and this new carbon index do nothing to improve quality of calves ..slaughter of young calves correctly going …although I think some form of force majoure will remain for something like tb breakdown



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,329 ✭✭✭✭mahoney_j


    Idiotic of the editor to let it go to print …and jaysus the lad that wrote it …scary to think we’ve people with that attitude in the industry



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,963 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    But there is a few flaws in the assumptions. The first is marketing. Cattle killed at 20ish months will have low body weights. 220-280 kgs most in the 250 kg brackets.

    While some are economic to do it wih you also ate starting to feed more and more ration to squeeze out the last of the bunch.

    Cost of over wintering cattle is not a massive issue. Up until this year decent silage alone to overwinter on costed 80c/day. This year it's about 1.25/ day. Fir a 130 day housing period that is 105 and 160 respectivly.

    The animal best fit to slaughter in the autumn is also best for early summer finish. Take a steer killing 260 in the autumn he will probably be an 0= at best at a base of 4.5 he be making 1155 euro gross.

    Killing him the following June he will should grade 2 points higher on the grid and probably weight at least 340kgs DW. Generally they will be a higher price as well. Comparing last autumn to last June the difference was a euro++/kg. Compare June to November this year it was 75c/kg++

    Even at 40c/kg at a base of 4.9 and the bullock grading R- @340 kgs DW he will gross 1735 with an extra margin of 580 euro.

    However it really depend on the animal and there ability to lay down fat and to grade or not to grade.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,212 ✭✭✭Good loser


    As I said above I think it's a perfectly reasonable letter and would be fully supportive of the course of action advocated. The 25% target changes everything and novel suggestions must be engaged with. Putting your head in the sand may be (more) idiotic than the letter!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,329 ✭✭✭✭mahoney_j


    Bet u do ….jaysus 😴😴😴…dairy farming is more than about the cow.if we don’t change our attitude to calves(some not all of us)calves should be left to us to rear ….



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,963 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    I half read the letter in the shop as I do not buy the rag. He lost the argument when he started on about protecting the suckler herd.

    F@@king idiot and that is being kind to him. All that is happening is the expense of uneconomical calves is being put back on the lad that produces them.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,329 ✭✭✭✭mahoney_j


    Agree ….and as for the mental health card he tried to play 😉😉😉attitudes like displayed. In that letter do rest of us farmers no favours



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,212 ✭✭✭Good loser


    So his opinion is idiotic and yours is not? I beg to differ.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,963 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Usually the problem with lads like that's MH is they take on too much. If your attitude is that f@@king calves in a trailer at 10-14 days solved your MH issues then you are going to the wrong counsellor

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,963 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Well sorry, you should just go to any co-op product sales manager and ask him. It was no accident that Glanbia pulled the plug on the Greenfield's farm. If you think that calf slaughter is economically acceptable then by all means go and a have a chat with a few product buyers of Irish milk. Nestle will not be buying your product neither will Kerry group or Glanbia in a few years

    The Rag and Agriland have given up reporting the number in there weekly kill figure. It's now nearly impossible to access them. Board Bia hides them in with the breeding bull klll and calls them others.

    If it not a problem why hide it. Put it out in the open. Be proud announce the figures whether it 25k, 30k or 40k. Other will not hide the figure from 2024 on when it's 100k plus

    Slava Ukrainii



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,086 ✭✭✭alps


    It'll b a vital outlet, that's if the market stays viable without the crossbred calves..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,349 ✭✭✭✭Base price


    Your looking in the wrong place. Calf slaughter figures including w/c 7/11/22 are 28,272 - just under 8,000 more than the same week last year. Bookmark this link for future reference - https://www.gov.ie/en/collection/605aa-beef-kill-figures-weekly-reports-2020/



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,391 ✭✭✭Anto_Meath


    There is a section of the dairy farming community who view bull calves as a waste by-product from milking. There is others who don't want to see it as such and get insulted when it is suggested to them so it is a hot divisive topic.

    As with waste from any industry it is the producers responsibility to "dispose" of it properly within the law and within regulations governing that industry. There is a cost involved in the correct disposal of any waste, but there is an element within the dairy farming community that don't want to spend money on this disposal. They are looking for the easiest way out, which for some is the slaughter of calves. Some don't want to spend the money involved in using sexed semen and then using beef sires on the remaining cows, but these will be the cost that will have to absorbed by the dairy farmers if they wish to continue supplying milk without the outlet of calf slaughtering. The days of bring FRx and JEx bull calves to the mart and hoping some lad will pay €5 for them is coming to an end as lads are seeing even at a €5 purchase price these animals are costing to much to rear to beef due to their genetic make up which is to produce milk and not to convert feed to beef...



  • Registered Users Posts: 592 ✭✭✭GNWoodd


    Put it out there so . Name the processors involved who took the milk from the herds that slaughtered the 30k calves so far this year if you think the approach being suggested is perfectly reasonable .

    Would you honestly think that the processors would want this made public ?

    As for the bullsh’t about reducing the impact on the environment of rearing these calves , the herds involved could reduce the number of cows they keep . That would reduce their GHG emissions immediately if they are that concerned.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,212 ✭✭✭Good loser


    The GHG emissions are levied on the sector not on individual farms. I cannot understand why people prefer onerous requirements - more and more added yearly - to a simple voluntary scheme of calf disposals. The only consequences for the beef sector would be slightly dearer calves. Were it not for the emissions I wouldn't waste my time discussing the topic.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,954 ✭✭✭straight


    Giving away a fine calf at 3 weeks for 20 euro average is one thing. Weaning it before sale and gifting it is absolutely a different level again. If I can get my hands on an outside block I'll be keeping mine.



  • Registered Users Posts: 285 ✭✭smallbeef


    And if I had an established dairy farm I'd be taking what I can get for em as soon as I could... grow maize or something on the out block



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,954 ✭✭✭straight




  • Registered Users Posts: 285 ✭✭smallbeef




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,963 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    That is your choice. What will an outside block cost 200/a re minimum maybe more. Then what will you do slaughter the HE and AA at 18-20 months from late September to Christmas eating on average 250kg+ ration. Have a shed for them for the first winter and for some 6-8 weeks of the second o e or do you I tend to sell as stores.

    Because you are dairy farming you have limited access to ACRES so you are dependent on the animals the selves turning a profit. Now you will be over and back every day to see them. The block you rent or lease may need fencing and done water infrastructure. I see them places often. Badly fenced boundaries, 2-3 blocks with one drinking trough each or access to water at a stream or Lough.

    You will get fed up of it fast enough

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,356 ✭✭✭green daries


    Are you a dairy farmer. are you over the age of 28-30 was your farm always in dairy 🤔 .are you not embarrassed to think that you've a god given right to kill young animals for no other reason than there expensive and troublesome.

    And what exactly are you smoking. .........cos its good **** and I'd like some.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,954 ✭✭✭straight


    I intend buying a place. Intend selling as stores for 7 to 800 euro. Already have sheds in place. Wouldn't bother with acres BS.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,329 ✭✭✭✭mahoney_j




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,329 ✭✭✭✭mahoney_j


    Think u need to go back and run a few figures …..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,257 ✭✭✭DBK1


    If you think €7 - €800 stores will be earning you enough of money to make the payments on whatever place you buy then I’d love to be in whatever dreamland you’re currently in.

    As green dairies just said to another poster, “what exactly are you smoking. ………cos it’s good **** and I’d like some!”



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,665 ✭✭✭White Clover


    No different than the shearing of sheep has become a cost to lamb production, the dairy bull calf at 3 weeks or 8 weeks has become a cost to milk production. Sheep farmers have got their heads around that long ago so no reason why dairy farmers can't grasp this new reality in relation to calves. No need for all the moaning with cows grossing 3 or 4k in milk or God given right to make money on a byproduct.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,356 ✭✭✭green daries


    I agree with your post clover but imo the biggest crime and problem of the lot is that it was let to get this way with small narrow. Runs of cows that produce a very poor off spring. This idea was pushed as the easy way to get rich and build big numbers and that any lathacho can look after them and milk them.......... farmers that are producing calves that are very poor quality it's your own problem nobody else's. The fact that the farmers in question are willing to slaughter them brings into question the quality of care before slaughter



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,212 ✭✭✭Good loser


    You obviously didn't read my letter properly. In it I said the ONLY reason I was discussing the topic was in light of the 25% cut required for emissions.

    Being expensive /troublesome has nothing to do with. I buy/rear 60 plus calves every year.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,212 ✭✭✭Good loser


    You won't make/exceed the rental value for 10 years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,954 ✭✭✭straight


    Not bothered about the payments. It'll be a little retirement farm for me as I don't intend milking cows in 20 years time



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,954 ✭✭✭straight


    I have brought calves home from the mart with no bid for them. Sold them for 700 to 800 the following year. It's not all about figures for me. I want a little retirement/hobby farm for when I hang up my clusters.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,329 ✭✭✭✭mahoney_j


    Fair enough but the economics don’t stack up ….when I hang up the clusters think I’d like to go contract rearing ….or maby just phone my auctioneer …stick it up for lease and and rent it out tax free @400 plus an acre



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,329 ✭✭✭✭mahoney_j


    Shortsighted one dimensional thinking from our advisory bodies and a blind fascination with kiwi dairying above anything else has us here



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,954 ✭✭✭straight


    Ya, I have family if they want my farm but if they don't want it I'd lease it out as a dairy farm. Need a small place then to keep myself ticking over. Couldn't sit around the house with the wife all day like 😉.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭Tonynewholland


    Renting land tax free won't be there forever. If they did stop it it would probably reduce the amount of land being intensively farmed which is what they want anyway



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,897 Mod ✭✭✭✭Siamsa Sessions


    What if I said you could retire to the sunshine of Lanzarote AND milk cows over there?

    They're milking 60 Jersey cows (not sure what they do with the bull calves) but I'm guessing they might be looking for experienced Irish lads to do the odd Sunday morning milking 😀

    Trading as Sullivan’s Farm on YouTube



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,963 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    I bought my farm twenty years ago. The first day I we t to the mart in mid March I bought 5 AA bullocks 340 kgs, three LM 330 ,and a few really badly done Friesian just squeezed 250 kgs they were all bullocks.

    I finished the AA that December they hung 280kgs average. The LM hung 360 DW the following July and the Friesian's hung 340 DW around the same time. Now I was only starting out and made loads of mistakes.

    Up until 6-8 years ago there was no problem buying AA &HE bullocks that would hang 360+ kg at 28-30 months nowadays less than 50% will do that and the rest are pure muck.

    I be doing cattle better especially over the winter. The solution is better quality cattle not a calf slaughter policy hiding behind a save the suckler or an emission policy.

    The whole thinking on milk expansion never probably factored in labour input, housing, production levels or calf quality. But even they all know that calf slaughter is not the answer

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,391 ✭✭✭Anto_Meath


    Correct Bass, its weight that the factory pays for, so you need an animal that will carry weight. If you aren't killing an animal that is killing out in the 300 kgs + bracket you are wasting your time. A little frame of a thing is no good for beef. Its why there was a good turn in the Holstein friesian, they might grade poor but with good summer grass they can put on plenty of weight.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,897 Mod ✭✭✭✭Siamsa Sessions


    Interesting that the editorial in the IFJ this week has a sentence that says, "By dairy beef we mean an animal produced by using a beef sire on a black and white milking cow." (emphasis mine)

    Does it seem strange to mention a particular type of cow? What about the type of cow not mentioned?

    Trading as Sullivan’s Farm on YouTube



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,823 ✭✭✭✭whelan2




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,823 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    I keep from posting on these threads as it's always the same roundabouts being posted. If the beef lads want good calves go to the farms and source them, no point moaning again and again about jex in marts, how dairy farmers don't feed bull calves etc etc, it's the same stuff just a different thread over and over. Rant over



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,290 ✭✭✭tanko


    Source good calves, that’s grand. What is done with the poor quality calves?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,823 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    My point is every thread on this turns into a dairy farmer slating exercise, blaming teagasc, farmers journal etc. Let those who have crap calves deal with them and deal with the consequences. No point rehashing it every few weeks under a different title.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,665 ✭✭✭White Clover


    That's a very simplistic view on the whole topic. I'm afraid it's a lot more serious for the industry and deserves every minute of debate.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,823 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    And will there be any different posts than the ones that have been in the other numerous threads? No point losing sleep over what other people are at, it's their problem



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