Covid vaccines - thread banned users in First Post

You have made a statement of fact that vaccines don't prevent infection or tranamission.

This statement is false medical disinformation without foundation.

It is contradicted by studies and evidence you yourself have posted to the thread.

You said it was exactly what conspiracy theorists argued...

Your statement appears to be false on both counts.

Others dont make that specific argument and you and they make much wider claims than that.

You linked studies from Sweden showing they do. That was you wasnt it?

The Qatar study also cited on this thread also showed they significantly reduced infections v Omicron albeit less effectively and for shorter duration.

You are now attempting to retcon 4th booster v Omicron as if it applied to all vaccines and variants.

This is medical disinformation, contradicted by your own posts on this thread.

You have forgotten that you posted a link to the Swedish Lancet study and made dozens of posts discussing it?

You posted a link to the study in post #9588.

It is difficult to debate a topic in good faith when studies are posted - so it is reasonable to assume the bona fides of the authors are accepted - but then disowned, especially where the contents of said studies are inconvenient for the present claim being made. I point this out to highlight inconsistencies in and between your posts on this thread pertaining to this specific claim.

You are making statements of facts about vaccines which are medical misinformation - unsupported by any linked articles or referenced evidence. You are not stating it merely as your interpretation of findings but a declaration. These claims have been repeatedly debunked, including by studies you posted onto the thread.

And here is a more recent debunking:

These assertions — that being vaccinated does not significantly reduce the transmission of COVID-19, or that COVID restrictions were due to the “common cold” — are false.

https://www.thejournal.ie/do-covid-19-vaccines-prevent-transmission-5919387-Nov2022/

At the height of the pandemic, when cases were threatening to overwhelm national health services, it was a no-brainer to get as many people vaccinated as possible. However since the pandemic has now subsided, the situation has changed and will further change. While there's still a threat (and threat of future mutations) looks like we're gradually moving more towards a "seasonal flu" type situation.

Vaccines reduce the risk of dying from Covid, in pretty much all age-groups. You're a fit healthy 30 yr old with no underlying conditions? You're unlikely to die from Covid, but you are less likely to die from it with the vaccine. And since we're all pretty much going to catch Covid, in terms of personal risk, it's better to be vaccinated than unvaccinated.

Anti-vaxxers attempt to turn that on it's head by overplaying about any side effects of vaccines, whilst ignoring the risks from Covid (and the millions of deaths from it)

As for the conspiracy theorists (who are nearly all anti-vaxxers by default), they have been claiming everything under the sun; that it's all a global plan to install communism, that it's being used to control us, that there are chips in the vaccines, that there's a nefarious plan behind the vaccines they can't explain, etc, etc. You're one of them. Like the rest of them you can't explain or detail your conspiracy.

Whatever it is about vaccines, they drive a certain personality type nuts.

The vaccines do prevent transmission and infection (full stop). You are again making unqualified claims about vaccines, without reference to specific variants and points in time. So does your claim relate to all variants, or just Omicron? When you say "prevent" do you mean if they don't prevent it 100% they don't 'prevent' it? It really isn't clear which is why I have queried these statements and on what basis they are made

That vaccines provide significant protection infection and transmission is established in the Swedish Lancet study for pre-Omicron variants. That clearly shows thousands of cases prevented - how could this be possible unless the vaccines prevent infection in the sense of significantly reduce the chances of getting infected. You cited it on this thread therefore I think it is reasonable for me to assume you accept the bona fides of the expert authors.

It demonstrates that the rationale for vaccine mandates when they were in place had a scientific justification - this effect would mean reduced spread, reduced risk, reduced cases.

Other studies such as the Qatar study cited on this thread, and the studies cited in The Journal article above all show that even versus Omicron, vaccination has a significant effect versus infection. It may not be significant enough versus Omicron to justify nationwide campaigns for what is a less severe variant, but it still a significant effect and it is a strawman argument to claim that because it doesn't do so to X% it does not do so at all.

More recently, a Danish study of variants of Omicron, the current dominant strain, found that the probability a vaccinated person infected with Covid-19 would pass it to a household member was about 23% or 33% lower than if they were unvaccinated, depending on the subvariant. A preprint posted online last week corroborated these findings, saying that vaccinated prisoners in California were 33% less likely to spread Omicron variants to close contacts.

Up to them, I don't see an issue at this point. The problem was during the pandemic when the wards were stuffed with anti-vaxxers and people who were refusing to be vaccinated. They were using up hospital resources. They were also dying. Unnecessarily. Some of whom are only there because they swallowed vaccine-denial stuff on social media.

The kind of stuff that's spread in a thread like this. There's no value to it.

If one of your older family members or grandparents started refusing to be vaccinated against Covid due to disino, you'd be the first to encourage them to get vaccinated. Why? Because you don't want them to risk dying unnecessarily.

Long before you appeared in here, we asked the resident anti-vaxxers at the time their vaccination status, most were vaxxed. It's all a load of BS.

That is my opinion of the Danish study yes.

So are you only talking about Omicron or not?

You see, when I queried the exact claim you are making and on what basis, you don't actually clarify it.

You challenge the evidence presented versus Omicron, yet not the evidence prevented for other strains - which includes evidence you yourself introduced onto this thread.

Yet you continue to repeat the vague and unspecific claim that "vaccines are not effective at preventing infections or transmission". So what exactly do you mean by this claim? It really isn't clear. It appears to be a strategy of deliberately keeping it vague so that other posters cannot refute it.

So I think it is entirely reasonable to point out that this (unqualified) claim made by you is contradicted by your own previous posts on this thread and experts you have cited e.g. you talk of waning effectiveness. How can it wane if it was not effective to begin with?