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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,139 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    I certainly take your point about Ukraine being blameless. My "off the hook" turn of phrase was meant in the most general sense, not intending to apportion culpability. They wouldn't be firing any missiles if Russia wasn't trying to destroy them, and it is certainly great to see the unilateral support Ukraine are getting from its allies on this matter.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,964 ✭✭✭rogber


    Says Mr

    "there's a coup in China",

    "Belarus is entering the war!",

    "Putin has only two weeks to live...erm, no,I mean Russia only has enough ammo for the next 2 weeks"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,395 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    As someone who occasionally deals in co-ordinate systems and there are many different systems and projections, the cockup theory is entirely believable where any manual input of figures is involved. I've seen many examples of rogue data, even the omission of a simple +/-

    Target 53.42797607873251, -7.929273201583614 and your missile hits Athlone. Target 53.42797607873251, 7.929273201583614 and oops, you blow up some poor suckers near Friedeburg in Germany.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,889 ✭✭✭SlowBlowin


    Both airports are military.

    What about the information is not credible ?

    The list of targets would be split and sent to various launch crews. At some point they would be entered into the missile programming system. At some point Long and Lat were swapped. Human mistakes like this have happened before.

    To me it seems the most likely answer.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,139 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa



    Then why aren't NATO saying that is what likely happened? I mean, if we're discussing it here on Boards, it's hardly news to them.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,889 ✭✭✭SlowBlowin




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,395 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Anyway all this gets away from the relentless attack on civilian infrastructure in Ukraine, designed to create a humanitarian crisis and drive more refugees to the EU.

    We may give up on the UN to stop this, they've shown themselves to be useless in this conflict. But what can the EU, Allies, NATO etc do to stop this use of missiles? Is there not sufficient justification there now in terms of threat to both NATO states in terms of refugees and the crass disregard for civilians to intervene and tell Russia that enough is enough and that agreed airspaces will be defended from now on. Defended is the key word, the onus will then be on Russia if they choose to further engage in this way.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,362 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    I don't know. I think the US and Poland are being a little too quick in trying to kill this story.

    I see no reason why the Ukrainian claims shouldn't be given the credence they deserve.

    For several reasons. The main one being they do claim to have evidence and actual data themselves that contradict the defensive missile scenario.

    Also I'm sure I am not the only one who found the response to them wanting access to the site a tad bit strange.

    Listening to Zelenskyy last night in his nightly address it would appear the data exchange they want hasn't happened, and no access to the site has yet been granted.

    It's all a little strange.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,764 ✭✭✭storker


    He could at least have left a note to explain how he manged to shoot himself five times with four different pistols.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,852 ✭✭✭zv2


    It looks like history is starting up again.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 146 ✭✭Wes M.


    Novaya Gazeta offers a bleak vision of Russia's post-war future, with a depleted national guard, eroded security services, thousands of demoralized, disenfranchised soldiers, and in the fall out, PMCs like Wagner seizing control of state functions. If I was a Russian elite, be it Kremlin-connected, or heading up a corporation, I'd be watching events very carefully now. The French revolutionaries' favourite method of dispatch was the guillotine, perhaps in Russia, it will be the sledgehammer. It makes for chilling reading...




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,012 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    Sing along Children!!

    Here's a song I put together explaining how everyone else are the things we really are but I've a cunning plan to accuse those first to confuse ye into thinking we're not the Nazis.

    Sing along now..




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,622 ✭✭✭Gerry T


    It would seem that the missile came from a Russian source, whether that was launched from russia, Belarus or Ukraine (by russia). If so we can say that Poland knows and so will USA. The question is why deny that, what possible reason would they do that. Yes they might not want to get drawn further into this war, but why worry about that. Russia has proven it will do nothing to countries helping Ukraine. My guess is Poland/USA/and some others like UK are now plotting a very large escalation in Ukraine and need to keep it quiet until the act is implemented, why would they publically declare "we know you done it, we're gona get ya"

    To me this is the most logical conclusion, an allied push, to drive Russia home. That might have to wait until April when the weather permits, but that's only 4 months of planning, procurement and logistics. No point in showing your hand.

    Zelensky could be in on it, playing the role he currently has been, time will tell.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,154 ✭✭✭Akabusi




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,764 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    The reason Zelenski might be doubling down on it is because they don't believe the missile was theirs and because their experts believe the debris they have seen indicates it was a KH-101 stealth cruise missile, not to mention they can probably account for every S-300 they fired.

    The question that should be asked is why Ukrainian experts are not being allowed to look at the evidence directly? There's one standout reason for that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    I believe they are planning to allow Ukrainian observers to get a look at the impact site and anything recovered, the question has to be why is America dictating what and who gets a look at the investigation.

    The poles said they have no issues with Ukraine being involved and they didn't think America would object,



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,012 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    Russian forces shoot a boat to sink it while retreating across the Dnieper river.

    This then attracts the interest of their trigger happy comrades who shoot at them in an exchange of "friendly fire".

    Karma is a b1tch.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,395 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    As good a theory as any, though there has been 9 long months for such planning to take place already. Hardly need for another several months to co-ordinate a response. The boots on the ground are going to be the Ukrainian army. Where EU, NATO and allies can help is by controlling the air & digital space and disabling Russian supply lines in Ukrainian territory. The Russian military would then have two options: engage or withdraw.



  • Posts: 1,886 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    If article 5 is ever triggered Is it a certainty that a Nuke is destined for London?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 146 ✭✭Wes M.


    Olga Skabeyeva's normally smiling (and smarmy) current affairs host (and husband) Yevgeny Popov finally loses his sh*t with the fantasists... No doubt he got a few lashes from Margarita Simonyan over this...


    Post edited by Wes M. on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,566 ✭✭✭Economics101


    What a naive question. It's not a certainty, but it is a risk. And you would need to spell out a more detailed scenario before getting even an approximate estimate of the risk.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,777 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    It would seem that the missile came from a Russian source, whether that was launched from russia, Belarus or Ukraine (by russia).

    Care to post some proof for the rest of us?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 864 ✭✭✭Hungry Burger


    In a full scale nuclear war, London would not only be hit by one warhead, but perhaps several. Maybe even 5 or 6. As well as every other major city in the UK including Belfast. I think the Soviets also had a plan to nuke Dublin as well so as not to give the UK a safe haven on their eastern border in which to regroup after the fact.

    Even still, with the massive amount of nuclear fallout, we would be fucked.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,764 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Well, the sooner the better as it would be interesting for Ukraine to divulge it's contrary data and more clearly explain it's reasons for doubt.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,852 ✭✭✭zv2


    It looks like history is starting up again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,764 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Nov 17(Reuters) - Investigators in Ukraine's recently liberated southern Kherson region have uncovered 63 bodies with signs of torture after Russian forces left the area, Ukraine's interior minister was quoted as saying early on Thursday.

    "Now, 63 bodies have been discovered in Kherson region, but we must understand that the search has only just started so many more dungeons and burial places will be uncovered," Interfax Ukraine news agency quoted Denys Monastyrsky as telling national television.

    Monastyrsky said law enforcement bodies had uncovered 436 instances of war crimes during Russia's occupation. Eleven places of detention had been discovered, including four where torture had been practiced.

    I hope there will be a day of reckoning. Not one cent of seized Horde foreign reserves and funds should ever be returned to them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,303 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    The last guest I recall speaking out like this came back the next day very humble and very patriotic, I suspect it will be the same with this guy



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 146 ✭✭Wes M.


    On a previous post I wondered if Vladimir Solovyov would put a lid on his threats to Europe after the Polish incident could have sparked dire consequences for Russia, but it seems he's more bitter and hateful than ever.




  • Posts: 1,886 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    If article 5 was triggered by nato yesterday, would Russia by default Nuke London ? ( I simplified it it for you )



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,777 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    The fallout from nuclear weapons is far less than people think. Nuclear weapons are designed to be as efficient as possible by using as much of the fission reaction to create a blast as possible. Radiation is a byproduct, and there isnt nearly as much long lasting stuff as you'd think.

    An accident at a nuclear plant would produce vastly more dangerous radiation than a nuclear bomb



This discussion has been closed.
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