Fighter jets for the Air Corps?

13-11-2022 01:17AM

Ireland could buy second-hand planes from countries like Egypt for example - see this example:

https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2022/11/12/drug-trafficking-boss-christy-kinahan-snr-tried-to-buy-transport-aircraft-from-egyptian-military/

Psychlops · 13-11-2022 01:27AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119867461#Comment_119867461

In Civvy hands as "experimental".

sparky42 · 13-11-2022 01:31AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119867566#Comment_119867566

You say that like that's a good reason to buy them, it is not.

saabsaab · 13-11-2022 01:18PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119868192#Comment_119868192

Well nothing wrong with the old hammer and chiisel. How about a few as a learning and training in fast jets as an interim and get the good stuff after.

sparky42 · 13-11-2022 01:44PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119868604#Comment_119868604

Why would you want to use them as trainers? That’s even more pointlessly stupid than using them as fighters particularly when you are a NATO standard military…

EchoIndia · 13-11-2022 02:04PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119868604#Comment_119868604

I'm surprised that people keep responding to this nonsense.

Nighttime22 · 13-11-2022 02:33PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119867413#Comment_119867413

Drones dont really pander to the top gun fantasies on here 🤣 we gotta be able to fight the pesky Russians in air combat above Ireland for our egos. The practical option of having our neighbors who invest heavily in a proper air force lending a hand and doing it doesn't sit well.

Nighttime22 · 13-11-2022 02:37PM

I wonder what would happen in the morning if Ireland had no Airforce, would apocalypses reign down? would we start to see devastating consequences? that's the questions we should be asking ourselves before spending money on hi-tech equipment that we dont really need.

And on the flipside if we had 2000 F-35As would we suddenly have some super sense of safety that we dont already have?

Larbre34 · 13-11-2022 03:01PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119868604#Comment_119868604

You're talking shite on purpose, STFU.

saabsaab · 13-11-2022 03:58PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119868915#Comment_119868915

I don't see the DOD spending lots on the latest aircraft. If the price was right they might fit our needs. A supersonic interceptor at a rock bottom price.

saabsaab · 13-11-2022 04:01PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119868844#Comment_119868844

We effectively don't. Couldn't intercept a fast flying civil jet as it is. After Putin's adventure a minimal capacity is desireable.

Larbre34 · 13-11-2022 06:32PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119869141#Comment_119869141

I don't see them spending lots of money on the latest aircraft either.

I see less chance of them spending slightly less money on ragged airframes of ancient Soviet technology, incompatible with our Western systems and procedures and with no provenance to speak of.

You know the phrase 'better than nothing?'

Well your idea is the exception that proves the rule in this case. Literally having nothing is better than having old Migs.

saabsaab · 13-11-2022 06:41PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119869678#Comment_119869678

Is it though? If it came to it, a few flying old interceptors v nothing? At least in a crisis i.e. 'rogue airliner on possible course to crash into the dail' means we could intercept in time as it stands what we have is way slower than any airliner.

source · 13-11-2022 07:09PM

You'd be better off with F5s or Mirages over soviet tech. But that would still be a poor choice over new aircraft.

sparky42 · 13-11-2022 07:15PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119869809#Comment_119869809

Pretty much, cheap and cheerful (as defence procurement goes of course), there’s the US Boneyard and F16s, no need to get into insanity like trying to use Migs.

saabsaab · 13-11-2022 07:44PM

Surprised at the quoted price of a F5 maybe a well used one on one site at 2M$!

Here are cheap jets, some well past it.

https://robbreport.com/motors/aviation/gallery/fighter-jets-sale-1234622620/5-mig-21/

bear1 · 13-11-2022 08:42PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119868844#Comment_119868844

There is no if, Ireland doesn't have an airforce. Period.

Nighttime22 · 13-11-2022 09:51PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119869149#Comment_119869149

I dont think we can use the ukraine as a realistic scenario to justify getting modern jets its abit nonsensical. I mean i highly doubt anyone here really believes Ireland is well up there on the places Russia wants to attack..

coolbeans · 13-11-2022 09:55PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119870606#Comment_119870606

Perhaps have a read as you're obviously coming at this cold...

https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/11/08/ireland-military-neutrality-russia-ocean-communication-energy-infrastructure-sabotage/

sparky42 · 13-11-2022 09:59PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119870633#Comment_119870633

Or maybe the findings of the Defence Commission even before Russia decided to try annexing another country…

Nighttime22 · 13-11-2022 10:08PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119870633#Comment_119870633

"Don’t count on Ireland to have any part in countering or deterring real and potential Russian threats" << This qoute from that is what will realistically happen, no one is depending on us to stop the Russians and rightly so we simply wouldnt be able to even if we had jets.

How do you propose we stop them? how much do you plan on investing in our military capability ? how much resources on a constant basis do you think we can realistically afford to keep on alert?

The notion that we'll be the "last line of defense" for critical infrastructure or be singled out in a 1v1 with the Russians is just nonsense it simply wont happen.

But in any case look at the militaries watching around the Baltics and the investments they spend on military and they still couldn't stop pipelines from being sabotaged.

We are the worst prepared military because we dont need to be the best prepared, we are essentially in a safe zone, at best the Russians could inconvenience us while doing critical damage to themselves on the world stage, the UK and US would then increase there military activities around places attacked and it would be repaired.

So in short the notion of us taking on the Russians Militarily is utter delusion and nonsense.

Nighttime22 · 13-11-2022 10:15PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119869164#Comment_119869164

By the looks of it you've been here literally years banging the same drum perhaps...move on? or actually engage in debate rather than petty slights.

Nighttime22 · 13-11-2022 10:28PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119870654#Comment_119870654

Yeah because we're certainly an ideal target and definitely up next on the auld annexing block, id say the Russians and there fantastic logistics system are just chomping at the bit at the prospect of having a go at Ireland...

Larbre34 · 13-11-2022 10:52PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119870783#Comment_119870783

Its a new world pal. And not a good one.

Russia will be thrown out of Ukraine. And what do you think will happen then?

Putin might get the elbow, sure. Maybe a few of his pals. But if you're expecting Alexei Navalny to come out of the Gulag on a white horse to install true democracy and take over, you can guess again.

Can you even conceive of the depth of rotten corruption that is pervasive at every level of Government, Civil Service, Banking, Industry, Energy, Academia and Military in Russia? Do you have smallest clue what those who control the money will do to hold onto it?

They've seen men ruined in the mid 90s after the USSR fell, they aren't going to be the next fall guys and they will attach themselves to any fascist ultra-nationalist who will keep them there. Better men than us have written countless books about it in the last 20 years and they are a sobering read.

Russia will go quiet for a while but the bad guys will still be there and they will rebuild the military, because a humiliated Russian is a dangerous Russian.

NATO may end up having to fight them at some point and for as long as we are NOT a NATO member state, we are vulnerable to being a weak back door to the NATO European umbrella.

The least we must do is be able to look after our own patch. The island of Ireland, the territorial waters and the 1 million square kilometres of EEZ. The land, sea, underwater and airspace.

If we have any pretensions to being a modern, sovereign Republic, its the bare minimum.

Nighttime22 · 13-11-2022 11:15PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119870893#Comment_119870893

I just think your view is very short sighted, and there are some gaping holes in what your saying.. again using Russia as a reason to massively increase our military spending is a massive stretch.

But even if we did do that and you got the jets you want and pesky Russians do there fly over and we shoot one down.. what do you think happens then? the age old dont have a weapon if you don't intend to use it rings true. I'd far rather let them harmlessly fly over.

If these threats that you are speculating about take place how long do you think Ireland will last in said scenarios?.

I think the people advocating for this increased military spending are dreaming genuinely i think its so naïve and nonsensical and short sighted.

You are utterly delusional if you believe for even a second that NATO would allow Russia to launch a full blown invasion of Ireland because we are "Not in NATO" from a strategic stand point alone they would declare on Russia as soon as they showed intention, you do realize our geographical location?

Nighttime22 · 13-11-2022 11:16PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119870893#Comment_119870893

give me a scenario where Ireland is exploited as the weak back door of NATO explain to me how Russia uses this to any meaningful advantage

Larbre34 · 13-11-2022 11:33PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119870994#Comment_119870994

I'm not getting into any further debate with you on it because you're being deliberately obtuse.

Read the report of the Commission on the Defence Forces, better Military minds than you (and me) wrote it, including three former Chiefs of Defence, one Irish, one NATO and one other European neutral.

I accept the report, for the most part. If you don't, well I don't really give a ****.

Nighttime22 · 13-11-2022 11:54PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119871057#Comment_119871057

I could care less what the commission say, Any one saying Ireland is in anyway shape or form under serious threat from the Russians is ridiculous. The reality of the world and the fact is Russia's army has been exposed as an absolute farce and that the west could not be safer from threat as anyone that would dare oppose it hasnt the ability to project power past there own doorstep.

But ya do continue to bang the drum of "we need massive military spending and jets because Russia"

You cant debate further with me because you simply have no answer to the facts and logic being produced its as simple as that really.

Im eagerly awaiting the petty dig aimed at me rather than the topic because your beaten otherwise, perhaps those that agree with your train of thought might back you up and you can set up an echo chamber environment where ye all reaffirm each others rightness lol

But yeah unless you can produce a scenario in which the Russians can impose there will on Ireland and physically threaten it in an meaningful sustained manner that wont be retaliated to by other powers or even preemptively stopped by other powers.. dont waste your time because your talking absolute fantasy commission or no commission.

bear1 · 14-11-2022 09:55AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119870690#Comment_119870690

That's some load of shite right there.

Why are we safe? We are the weakest and most exposed link in Europe.

We have the biggest maritime area to cover and yet we do not have the means to protect it.

We are in charge of a very important piece of airspace between Europe and North America and yet if anything happens we can't do anything.

Pray tell, how are we safe and how is the above acceptable to you?

And with regards to your last sentence, the same was said about Ukraine and yet here we are.

I bet if Ireland was given the aid Ukraine was given then I would imagine we'd have the same chance.

jonnybigwallet · 14-11-2022 10:27AM

In my opinion the Air Force should have total air superiority over the entire island and surrounding seas and islands. Similarly the Navy should be 100% in control of the maritime domain and the army on land.

Fighter jets for the Air Corps?

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