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Electoral Reform Act 2022.

  • 03-11-2022 1:30pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭


    I couldn’t find anything on this in CA, but I think it’s a hugely important piece of anti-democratic legislation that should be publicised in the busiest forum on Boards.

    The government has decided to BAN anyone from setting up a new political party, unless you already have a sitting TD or MEP.

    I don’t recall any debate, discussion or protest ever asking for this. I think it is an affront to democracy. If you aren’t already in our club, you can’t join it. These people are supposed to represent the will of the people. This is not democracy.

    What do the people of Boards think?


    45: Qualifying criteria for registration of political parties:

    the party has at least one member who, at the time the application for registration is made, is a member of Dáil Éireann or is a representative in the European Parliament (whether by reason of his or her having been elected as such a representative in the State or having been nominated as a replacement candidate under the Act of 1997) and who certifies in writing to the Registrar that he or she is a member of the party

    Post edited by Ten of Swords on


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Comments

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    If that turns out to be the case, it's yet again more anti-democratic legislation from this government.

    First, Helen of Meath's nonsense hate speech legislation, and now this.

    To put this into perspective, UKIP in the UK managed to hoover up 4 million votes in the 2015 election - changing British politics; and that party would never have been registered in the UK had they had this kind of legislation in place.

    Rotten to the core legislation. Fine Gael will never get my vote again.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    Incorrect, you need all both for general elections.

    The first 2 have always been in place. The third part was added in July.



  • Registered Users Posts: 848 ✭✭✭Icemancometh


    Does the or at the end of the second clause not imply that you need to meet one of the three criteria, not all of them?



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,578 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Fair enough. I would argue the construction of the clauses with the "or" before section (iii) makes it a list of options rather than a list of requirements. But I don't draft laws for a living.

    What do you mean by "always been in place"?



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,791 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    If the first two were already in place, how does that fit with your OP where it was stated:

    "The government has decided to BAN anyone from setting up a new political party, unless you already have a sitting TD or MEP.

    I don’t recall any debate, discussion or protest ever asking for this. I think it is an affront to democracy. If you aren’t already in our club, you can’t join it. These people are supposed to represent the will of the people. This is not democracy."

    If your latest post is correct, the part in italics is at best a complete misrepresentation, or at worst a complete lie intended to flame discussion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    You’ve previously always needed 300 members etc to register a party. The need to have a seat is new.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    The or is to differentiate between general or local elections. If you only want to stand on loca issues you need to have 3 sitting counsellors in your party.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,578 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    so by the "third part is new" you mean clause (b)(ii)?

    My reading is still that this is a list of options, and the addition of (b)(ii) would be to suggest you can register a party without 300 members if you have a member of parliament. i.e., it is a relaxation of requirements to ensure that any party with representation in the Dáil can be registered.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    The need for 300 members and at least 150 of them registered to vote. They have now added the hurdle of needing a sitting TD or MEP to register a party.

    It’s hardly rocket science. Previously you needed the backing of Irish people to register a party, now you need to be a member of the club to register one.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,578 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    X, Y, or Z means that it is a list of options and X or Y or Z can be the qualifying factor.



  • Registered Users Posts: 39,987 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    those are the kind of mistakes you make when you look at one section in isolation and dont use the adjoining sections for context. Curious as well that they omitted the ", or" from the section they did quote.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 47,810 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    what do they mean by 'ban'?

    what i can see is that you can't register as a political party until certain qualifying criteria are met. that doesn't mean political parties are 'banned'?



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,936 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Yes it's OR not AND



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Undet this legislation, is it possible for a new political party to contest a general election without having a sitting TD or MEP?



  • Registered Users Posts: 39,987 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 47,810 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    from wikipedia, presumably relating to the existing, not proposed, legislation:

    "In order to be registered to contest national elections a party must have either at least one member in Dáil Éireann or the European Parliament, or 300 recorded members aged 18 or over. Parties that register only to contest elections in part of the state or in local elections need only 100 recorded members aged 18 or over. In either case at least half of the recorded members must be on the register of electors."

    there is nothing about banning going on. if you fail to meet the relevant criteria, any elected representatives you have are just officially treated as independents.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    No.

    To contest a general election you must be registered as a party. To register as a party you need to have 300 members, all over 18, with at least 150 of those registered to vote, and a sitting TD or MEP who will put in writing that they are a member of your party.

    The “or” that people don’t seem to understand only differentiates between general and local elections.

    So for a general election you need the first paragraph, “OR” for local elections you need 3 members who are already part sitting on a local authority rather than a TD or MEP.

    So for a general election you need 300 members, with at least 150 of them registered voters and a TD or MEP

    For a local election you need 300 members, with at least 150 of them registered voters and 3 people already sitting on local authorities.

    Can’t put it any simpler than that. Still not getting it?? Contact your local citizens advice, they’ll tell you the same.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,782 ✭✭✭StrawbsM


    Crisis averted so!

    No way something like that would have gone under the radar.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 47,810 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    To contest a general election you must be registered as a party.

    you're leaving an important detail out. there's nothing stopping you from contesting a seat in an election, but you will be treated as an independent unless you meet the criteria.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,578 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    To contest a general election you must be registered as a party

    This is simply false

    To register as a party you need to have 300 members, all over 18, with at least 150 of those registered to vote, and a sitting TD or MEP who will put in writing that they are a member of your party.

    According to you. Pretty much everyone else disagrees with your interpretation of how this is written. It is an OR not an "and". You are not putting forth any argument as to why your interpretation is correct.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,782 ✭✭✭StrawbsM


    Here’s a screenshot. It is missing an “or”




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    It’s not an interpretation. You have a local citizens advice, you’ll have local TDs. Contact either and ask them. I won’t ask for an apology, just once you get the answer from them, come back and tell the class what they tell you.



  • Registered Users Posts: 80,144 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    That’s how I read Irish statues written like this.

    If it is banning new parties effectively its chilling small groups of independents that’s probably not great.



  • Registered Users Posts: 39,987 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    If it was (i) AND ( (ii) or (iii) ) it would have been formatted differently with (ii) and (ii) indented one level and an "and" after (i).



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭marieholmfan


    Small groups of nutters pretending to be important instead of fixing their own lives you mean.



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