M6 - Galway City Ring Road [planning decision pending]

KrisW1001 · 20-10-2022 5:45pm

A new low.

Do we have a way of muting or hiding a thread on Boards?

Unrealistic · 20-10-2022 6:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119771667#Comment_119771667

The road network we already have didn't prevent Bonham Quay being built and the tall cranes currently in the University grounds seem to kept very busy. We also manage to get wind turbines through the city and out to Connemara using the current road network.

While there may be some reasons for a ring road that have some validity the idea that construction in the city is impossible without it is farcical.

Juran · 20-10-2022 6:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119770236#Comment_119770236

No major settlements west of Galway ?

West of Galway is: Largest gaeltacht in the country which almost doubles in the summer with gaelgoirí, one of the key fishing ports and ferry port to Aran, (and planned to be the main Galway commercial port), Connemara south (Spiddal, Cois fharraige, Ros a Mhíl, Casla, Cararoe, Na hOiléain, Rosmuc, Carna), Connemara north (Clifden, Roundstone, Ballyconneely), Fubro/Barna, Knocknacarra & Sathill.

<snip> Mod: Do not attack the poster.

Unrealistic · 20-10-2022 6:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119771799#Comment_119771799

Saying there are no major settlements west of Galway is not the same thing as saying no one lives west of Galway. Like it or not the main settlements are all in the part of the county that is east of the city.

Juran · 20-10-2022 7:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119771877#Comment_119771877

I don't disagree with your figures.

Tell me, how many tourists visit Gort, Oranmore, Tuam and Loughrea every year ?

This is the difference between East and West Galway.

brianc89 · 20-10-2022 7:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119771877#Comment_119771877

This is HILARIOUS.

All the towns you list have motorway bypasses or a ring road. LOL

I'm estimating (so please correct me), but I estimate the following populations:

Galway city: 74k

Galway West (excl. City): 75k

Galway East: 117k

The one off housing across the county is appalling, particularly bad in Galway West. Improving road infrastructure won't lead to more one off housing if you ban one off housing, which GCC basically have?.....

20-10-2022 8:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119772132#Comment_119772132

You are overestimating the population west of the city.

When you say Galway West do you mean the Dáil constituency?

If so that number includes well populated areas such as Clarinbridge, Oranmore, Claregalway and Annaghdown.

The city was a double decker short of 80k in the 2016 census.

CruelSummer · 20-10-2022 8:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119770148#Comment_119770148

Nothing personal meant, apologies if it appears that’ way. I am demonstrating that many posters on this thread who are vehemently against the road are not affected by the outcomes as they’re not commuting or living in Galway. Many of the posters also appear completely anti any roads being constructed and totally anti car.

brianc89 · 20-10-2022 8:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119772240#Comment_119772240

Okay thanks for that. It was difficult to get this info, so yes I used constituency data (from 2011 before GE split with Roscommon).

It would be nice to see population separation East and West of the Corrib, if anyone can help ....

By the way, the articles linked above are farcical. I mean seriously - the lack of PT investment has resulted in traffic congestion but this is what they think......

......He said that Galway has been a victim of its own success as industrial growth has resulted in traffic congestion.

Seth Brundle · 20-10-2022 8:44pm

Many of the posters also appear completely anti any roads being constructed and totally anti car.

Whilst neither of those would reflect my views, people having an opinion different to yours does not mean that their opinion is any less valid than yours assuming that it is based on the facts and the evidence. Plus, as taxpayers they have a fiscal interest in whether or not the road is built! One could also argue that were the road to go ahead then the air quality in Galway will deteriorate (as per the TII/councils own studies) which has an effect on the health of all of us.

20-10-2022 9:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119772331#Comment_119772331

No harm no foul :)

Just to be clear, I don't think all roads are evil, quite the contrary, there are some that are needed and urgently due to the way we've allowed planning and transportation to evolve. Same for cars, they serve a purpose and while I sold my own, I still have a license and still make use of GoCar when the rare occasion calls for it but mostly I walk, cycle, bus, train everywhere now and prefer it that way

marno21 · 21-10-2022 12:39am

MOD:

I am temporarily closing this thread and will discuss with the other mods how to proceed. It’s a complete train wreck at present

marno21 · 07-11-2022 4:51am

MOD:

This thread will remain closed until further developments on the project. If something happens related to the project please PM me and I will reopen for discussion.

At the minute it's like Groundhog Day in here and without something new to discuss it'll be the same old arguments that have gone on here for years.

Sam Russell · 30-01-2023 7:01pm

MOD

ABP has collapsed its defence of the HC action so the current planning is cancelled.

I will reopen this thread for discussion but include the PT aspects of solving the Galway traffic problem as the GCC will hardly be built within the next 5 to 10 years but the traffic problem cannot wait that long.

hans aus dtschl · 31-01-2023 12:19pm

I've just read an article on BreakingNews saying "Galway County Council’s planning application for a €600 million ring road around Galway will be remitted to An Bord Pleanála for fresh consideration." does this mean that they are going to try and resubmit it?

31-01-2023 12:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120181514#Comment_120181514

https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2023/01/30/application-for-600m-galway-ring-road-to-be-considered-afresh-by-bord-pleanala/

It means that ABP are going back to the point of the inspectors report in Jun 2021 and reassessing from that point.

This reassessment will take account of the Climate Action Plan and the project will have to meet the criteria of that.

Hard to see how it'll be granted permission with that in mind

It's estimated that this review will take 12 months which means its most likely to take about 18-24 months

Sam Russell · 31-01-2023 12:45pm

I think the whole set of mitigation of city centre traffic needs to be carried out and many mitigation measures implemented for PT and sustainable travel - bikes and walking.

It is unlikely that the GRR will be opened within a decade, and so many actions are needed before then. Why is there no PT crossing the QCB? Why can there not be a cycle lane in Salthill along the sea front? Oh, yes, the cars need to be parked there!

The alternative project that have been shelved pending the GCC need dusting down and reconsidered.

Edit: Galway Ring Road meant above.

CatInABox · 31-01-2023 12:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120181534#Comment_120181534

Extremely difficult to see where an approval is going to come from on this. If ABP do somehow manage to convince themselves to ok a project that increases emissions while our climate plan says we must reduce emissions, then this will just end up back under judicial review. If, somehow, the courts decide that this project is ok, then it'll be taken all the way to the ECJ.

31-01-2023 12:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120181669#Comment_120181669

Do you mean the GCRR as opposed to the GCC?

It is unlikely that the GCC will be opened within a decade

I think at this stage we're looking at the 2040's

2024 - ABP Decision

2026 - first appeals heard

2028 - Appeal decisions

2029 - Further appeals to the Supreme Court

2031 - SC decision (let's assume no EU referral

2033 - PSC review completed

2034 - Cabinet approval

2035 - Tendering

2036 - Tender approval

2037 - Construction starts

2040 - Road opens

That's best case imho

As you say, AT and PT solutions are required now. The GTS review will likely ramp those up to a much greater level than is currently proposed.

Why is there no PT crossing the QCB?

Simply put not enough demand lives along the route you propose plus it would bypass 30% of the population of the city by not going through the city centre

There is a route planned to do this though its by a private company afaik. Last I heard they were trying to hire drivers

marno21 · 31-01-2023 1:06pm

Extremely difficult to see where an approval is going to come from on this. If ABP do somehow manage to convince themselves to ok a project that increases emissions while our climate plan says we must reduce emissions, then this will just end up back under judicial review. If, somehow, the courts decide that this project is ok, then it'll be taken all the way to the ECJ.

Hard to see where it stops if we go down this road. Where do you draw the line? Stopping construction of houses because emissions targets aren't being met? Forced reduction of car numbers? It's a slippery slope and eventually that line of thinking will hit the buffer stops politically.

A large majority of people in this country know that not building this road will do sweet **** all in the aim of averting/stopping climate change. It will, on the other hand, have a massive impact on people in Galway who want to see this built. And they do have votes and will vote with their feet.

The whole inflicting hardship on people to cut emissions will lead to a very sharp U turn by the Government when people start getting angry about it. And if they don't undo it, the people will vote in someone who will.

31-01-2023 1:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120181782#Comment_120181782

No govt has ever been elected on the basis of ability to deliver a capital project afaik, open to correction 2

Hell the same applies to the individual candidates with Ollie Crowe being a good example. He ran a massive campaign on being the man who could get it delivered and he couldn't manage to get elected

marno21 · 31-01-2023 1:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120181793#Comment_120181793

Governments don't get elected, TDs do. TDs get elected in constituencies where local issues dominate.

Sean Kyne, a TD in this area, recently remarked at believing he lost his seat partly because he went against local constituents in Oughterard on an issue in 2019. Today he was defending the Ring Road on Twitter. When following the "Climate Action Plan" leads to TDs losing seats because they are allowing the CAP to take precedence over their constituents, the wind might start blowing in a different direction on this issue.

cgcsb · 31-01-2023 1:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120181782#Comment_120181782

Housing is essential and building it reduces emissions because it means more people living in modern housing as opposed to more energy intensive dwellings, the people will still exist if housing is built or not.

This is unlike urban or semi urban Road building. Building it generates car journeys that otherwise would not exist.

Seth Brundle · 31-01-2023 1:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120181852#Comment_120181852

The only thing I can see is him saying how it is going back to ABP but there is sweet FA in terms of "defending the RR" aside from a non-committal [stupid?] comment about delays for the hard pressed commuters...

https://twitter.com/SeanKyneGalway/status/1620096214271397888

Furthermore, your reference to the CAP has nothing to do with stopping a road which would not be beneficial to Galway commuters in the medium to long term. Agriculture is definitley something that needs to be properly addressed but that doesn't mean that a city which has allowed itself to become shockingly dependent on car journeys should dig deeper into that position simply because!

what_traffic · 31-01-2023 2:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120181852#Comment_120181852

Re losing his seat. Did the derelict Connemara Gateway Hotel in Oughterard really "cost" him his TD seat? He has "delivered the Moycullen bypass" currently under construction imagine that would trump getting a hotel reopened and getting used again.

One issue I have not heard our local "Senator" take on - he may have; but I read local papers here in Galway City and County. There is no Secondary School in Moycullen. He himself is based in Moycullen. That would take some volume of peak car traffic off the N59. There is big difference on N59 when we have the School holidays. The local National School can accommodate up to 416 pupils. Some kids West /Northwest of Moycullen will goto Oughterard and some also to Spiddal but there is a huge volume of kids going into Galway City during the school term.

serfboard · 31-01-2023 4:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120182153#Comment_120182153

I never realised that there is no Secondary School in Moycullen. I've often thought that the huge volume of traffic on the N59 in the mornings was just people going to work, but a Secondary School run makes sense. I wonder what the criteria are for building a Secondary School?

Also worth bearing in mind for workers commuting along that road is that if the Connemara Greenway ever gets built, it would be an 11km cycle from Moycullen to the QCB (Using my best Google Maps distance estimate). Would be a lovely journey on a nice day.

Larbre34 · 31-01-2023 4:29pm

Elected representatives doing their constituents bidding??!!

Call the Guards, reestablish the Mahon Tribunal quick!

This road is going to be built. You all know it is, just some of you are more prepared to lie to themselves about it than others.

what_traffic · 31-01-2023 4:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120182819#Comment_120182819

Certainly nice Commuter Greenway route alright, sheltered and flat. With electric bikes - makes it even easier. IDA Danan, NUIG and UHG are about do-able from Moycullen. University and Hospital are probably two biggest employers in the City as well.

31-01-2023 4:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120182819#Comment_120182819

lso worth bearing in mind for workers commuting along that road is that if the Connemara Greenway ever gets built, it would be an 11km cycle from Moycullen to the QCB

Many years ago I was looking at buying in Moycullen for exactly this reason. A daily spin on quiet riverbanks, whats not to love

Pete_Cavan · 31-01-2023 5:39pm

TII should withdraw the application instead of allowing ABP go through the motions again. There is not going to be a satisfactory outcome to doing it this way. If ABP approve it, there will be just more appeals and a complete lack of action. There is no way this project survives the courts, to do so it would have to be in accordance with a plan it was not designed to be in accordance with. Absolute waste of time and resources.

TII need to take a step back and reassess options in the context of current regulations and policies, and post war inflation realities. They can either choose to start that process now or be forced to do so in 4 or 5 years time. Enough time has been wasted on this already.

M6 - Galway City Ring Road [planning decision pending]

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