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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,084 ✭✭✭kevthegaff


    Pence came out and said "no room in the Conservative movement for putin apologists"



  • Posts: 4,503 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    How many listen to Pence though, when the tangerine fascist still has sway in the republican party.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,177 ✭✭✭✭briany


    This is what the Russian apologists don't get when they talk about Russia being pushed into a corner by NATO regarding encroachment on Russia's borders. I can't speak for all the Baltic countries, but since gaining independence, Estonia has not been a big Russia fan. Given Estonia's extreme physical proximity to Russia, it's natural enough to conclude that the only way they could have assurances of real and lasting independence from Russia was to be part of some defensive pact like NATO, and sure enough that's exactly what it joined.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,327 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    No not at all... 50 nations did not need to outright back Russia in order for it to be significant. You're being very naive (or possibly deliberately obtuse) to the world of geopolitics.

    You can play down their abstentions or choice not to vote if you wish Wibbs. That's your opinion, and you're entitled to it. But plenty of people consider it to be highly significant.

    It would be a helluva lot more "significant' if even ten orr twenty nations voted in favour of Russia's annexation. But they didn't. Four, just four did. And a right rogue's gallery they are too.

    And this overly simplistic rhetoric of "friends" and "enemies" is again a bit naive. Assuming you're not just deliberately using those terms, to try and make your point seem more legitimate. Many nations vote (or don't vote), based on what they think might be in their interests - possibly even far into the future. And while morality no doubt has some part to play, don't be surprised if our hypocrisy makes our moralizing a bit hard to stomach for some parts of the world.

    Our hypocrisy eh? Jesus the lack of Russian self awareness and irony can be truly staggering. Millions protested and marched against the whataboutery oil wars of the US, including Americans. Not seeing much on that score from Russians.

    Besides, I've noticed talking to people in other parts of the world, this conflict is kind of viewed like a regional civil war of sorts. People in the west are far more likely to buy into the hype around WW3 and Putin being a threat to the world. It doesn't seem to have the same resonance in other regions. So perhaps many of these nations, are not prepared to bite off their own nose just to help us slay the latest "baddie" we've cooked up. Our latest crusade is of less interest to them, than their day to day existence.

    Latest baddie eh. No matter what side someone is on, these facts are clear: Without Russia's war millions wouldn't be displaced, tens of thousands wouldn't be dead or crippled, including Russians, Russia wouldn't be sanctioned, Russia's markets wouldn't have shrunk, they'd even have their billions in oligarch cash robbed from ordinary Russians, Russia's military wouldn't look so weak, NATO wouldn't be expanding and even the threat of nuclear war wouldn't be in play. Now some in othe regions as you call them do indeed see this as Russia's war against the "White West", while not copping the obvious fact that Russia is the last White "Christian" old style European empire on the planet. But hey they didn't colonise Africa so that's OK then(though they had a little go). They colonised all the way to the pacific and some of their more vacant muppets go on about a glorious Russian empire from the Atlantic to the Pacific.

    I actually had a twitter convo on this point with one African eejit who with a straight face claimed that Russians weren't White. They were Slavs apparently and that's very different, even if they're gingers with freckles and blue eyes... This same eejit couldn't define White beyond "American" and that it's a "way of thinking". Ironic as America often has had trouble working that out too.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,274 ✭✭✭EOQRTL


    Pence is a lame duck now after turning on the orange clown.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,407 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    And you only spotted that now. There called bots for a reason.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,407 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    He might be. However it is.my opinion that if Trump manages to win the nomination that at least one republican will stand as an independent such as Cheaney or Pense. As well Bush may come out and canvas against him as well.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,540 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    The claims from these guys that there is virtually no war in most of Ukraine are utter nonsense and downright ignorant. Foreign journalists report that there is nothing particularly 'normal' about life in Kyiv and that anyone can tell there is a war on. It would be like claiming that life in Britain was perfectly normal in 1940-45 and just like it was in peacetime.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,849 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout



    You will find that a lot of the Republican Senators will have a similar attitude to Pence. They behave more like old-school Republicans, because most of them literally are (It's pretty hard to dislodge a Senator in a non-swing state - Chuck Grassley of Iowa is currently running for another 6 year term at the age of 89 years old)

    The problem is in the House. There most of the districts are gerrymandered and therefore have uncompetitive general elections. That means that the "real" election is often the primary. In deep red districts this has led to Republican primaries where the candidates have tried to outdo each other in adhering to all things Trumpian - often leading to some genuinely insane winners. Most of these can be found in the "Freedom Caucus", which includes the likes of Paul Gosar, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Lauren Boebert, Matt Gaetz and Jim Jordan. They only make up a small minority of elected Republicans in the House but crucially, the hold the balance of power. Kevin McCarthy would sell his own grandmother to become speaker so it's nothing for him to throw the people of Ukraine under a bus. He knows that that's what the MAGA wing will want and he'll be prepared to deliver it if it means he gets the Speaker's gavel.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,177 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Not the thread for it, really, but instead of Cheney or Pence, would there be any chance of getting an independent Republican with maybe an iota of charisma? They'd both fail to make to make a significant dent against Trump, were he to run, or were he even able to run, and only serve to seemingly confirm the notion that whoever is voting Republican will vote Trump or Trump surrogate and that there is no untapped reservoir of moderate Republicans who grit their teeth when going to the polls.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,849 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout



    There is a chance but there's no chance that they'd be elected. That ship has sailed. It's Trump's party now. In the unlikely situation that he is unable to run in 2024 their nominee will be someone who has bought into Trumpism, like Ron De Santis. Moderates, like Mitt Romney, would have no hope.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,274 ✭✭✭EOQRTL


    Independents don't stand a chance in the US. Nobody not even Cheney would be thick enough to run.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,407 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    What you have described there is similar to the election of Truss in the UK. I can never understand the fixation with general membership being allowed to select political leaders. The older Conservative leadership would be white and old business money. They dreamed of empire. It's similar to UK labour where trade unions hold too much sway in the contest.

    You end up with idealists deciding the outcome of the leader of a party. These people have no short term not to mind longterm thinking/plan

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,527 ✭✭✭circadian


    Aye the Baltic States and Poland have been extremely vocal about not trusting Russia since the fall of the Soviet Union. Others like Finland and Sweden were definitely a bit cautious but they certainly weren't as outspoken in their distrust.


    Then we have the UK, Germans, French and Italians who enabled Russia. Probably as a result of niavety and the chance of personal gain in terms of procuring genergy amongst other things. Basically we got fucked because the largest economies in the bloc ignored the warnings of the smaller ones.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,527 ✭✭✭circadian


    Plenty of people on social media and increasingly joining telegram channels. These places are notorious for not only unfounded false information but creating feedback loops where that's the majority of what people see.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    France, Germany and Italy see Russia as being like them, one of the grand powers, They will always treat with them over the heads of lesser nations

    Speaking of which, I see Germanys tech security head got sacked for being too close to Russia. Putin really did a number on the EU via Germany



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,407 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    The whole point of the standing is not to get elected but to just get 1-3% of the vote in the presidential election. That all it takes to stop Trump


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_Perot_1992_presidential_campaign#%3A%7E%3Atext%3DHe_failed_to_win_any%2Cfinish_first_in_a_county.?wprov=sfla1

    While neither George Wallace.or Ross Perot got elected it is taught that they effect the outcome of the election. Basically they would be running as a stopper

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,618 ✭✭✭Cordell


    The german politicians were not naive, they knew very well what they were doing, and it's called treason. We need to see Schroeder and Merkel being investigated for treason or this will happen again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Follow the money it's that simple. No appetite atm it seems. Always calls for Italians Greeks and alike to be investigated.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,051 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Sure, in as large a country as Ukraine, a lot of it will have been at least physically untouched by the war..you will be able travel over vast distances without seeing any war destruction. So easy to see why articles can appear claiming that its not a real war, which is the angle they are pushing. The truth of course, is far different. Its an ugly destructive war, and caused by one man, and one man only, Vladimir Putin.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,062 ✭✭✭Hobgoblin11



    Deputy envoy of Russia to UN denies export of Iranian drone to Russia, threatens to review relationship with UN secretary office, if UN send experts to study Russian drones in Ukraine

    Dundalk, Co. Louth



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,407 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    I think treason is harsh. I think it was more a misguided thinking. I think Merkel taught that Germany could make Russia dependent on German cash flow. She just did not understand that Putin was just another psychopathic dictator.

    Merkel and Schroeder would have a distrust of the US and US policy. They just gave the ballox the benefit of doubt for too long.

    Remember from 2017-2020 you had the Donald in the equation as well

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Merkel was from East Germany. russia already had plenty of money after it recombined. Military spending killed the USSR pretty much keeping up or looking like it did with the west. I mean all those space missions must have come at a hell of a price. Did they not put a tank on the moon or something stupid. The west should never look that far east for allies it's simply different cultures with completely different values. Asian cultures for example strict hierarchy lead from top to bottom everyone know there place. russia always rules with an Iron fist. There is simply no way these cultures can get on other than simple diplomacy. Japan learned a lesson a very hard way but still has a strict system in place. If your half Japanese your not Japanese for example. You will always be see as the other half.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,062 ✭✭✭Hobgoblin11



    Substation turned off the grid in Belgorod, due to power overload, - according to authorities

    Dundalk, Co. Louth



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    What was that song.. I want to run away. The Ukrainian video.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 371 ✭✭lizzyjane


    The same Donald that told them they were too reliant on Russian energy, and I am pretty sure this war would not have started with him as president.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,002 ✭✭✭Dufflecoat Fanny


    Obama and his administration warned of that years before. Trump didn't have an original or helpful idea by himself.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,615 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Because it's hard to turn down cheap and convenient energy, even when the attendant risks are pointed out. As the state of the planet today vividly testifies.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 9,452 CMod ✭✭✭✭Fathom


    What was the first impeachment of Trump about? An attempted quid pro quo by Trump? Withholding hundreds of millions of congressional budgeted monies for Ukraine arms in exchange for dirt on Biden’s son (intended by Trump to influence American voters in the November 2020 presidential elections)? The US House voted to impeach (Mostly Democrats but also some Republicans), but there were too many Republican US Senate votes along party lines that saved Trump from being thrown out of office.

    Similar to a Fox and Friends talking point, “I am pretty sure this war would not have started with him (Trump) as president,” was contradicted when former President Trump praised Putin for being a “genius” on the advent of 24 February 2022 when Russia invaded Ukraine.



This discussion has been closed.
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