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Was the government right to put no limit on the amount of Ukrainian refugees in Ireland? Read OP

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  • Site Banned Posts: 7,421 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    They most certainly do. The government is paying (i.e. we..well not you).

    Hold on a second...you didn't think they were providing at cost!?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,911 ✭✭✭Patrick2010


    The now accepted use of hotels for refugees accommodation is a game changer, they are the new provision centres for refugees awaiting their own door accommodation. You can see them being used more and more now, which will obviously have an affect on those towns relying on tourists



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,862 ✭✭✭Real Donald Trump




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,569 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    A true snowflake do gooder of the highest order.



  • Posts: 2,814 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Again Druid, I asked a straightforward question. You frame it as ‘completely negative shite’. You simply can’t / won’t tolerate any scrutiny or relatively gentle probing.

    Why is that do you think? Is there perhaps a latent, unacknowledged place in that psyche of yours, that unconsciously realizes that the current situation is untenable?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,512 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    "Good news story." "Yeah, but how do we know..." Yup, completely negative shite. Not just on this one topic of the Killarney Lord Mayor's interview, but throughout this thread and last. With the occasional "obviously I support the Ukrainians", without once ever having demonstrated how that support manifests.

    My psyche's grand, thanks.

    ===
    boards.ie default cookie settings now include "legitimate interest" for >200 companies, unless you specifically opted out!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,534 ✭✭✭seanin4711


    that would send them home asap,oh the nightmares of that book!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,092 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    In fairness that’s both sides. Most people want to help without being personally inconvenienced. Even those that open their own homes might be looking at inflation and energy costs and wondering how things will look in a few months. Then you add the possibility of a global recession into the mix.

    It’s only in this thread that I saw that you don’t support full welfare payments to refugees, at least we can agree on that. You have to see that resentment will build if people think refugees are being prioritised over the interests of Irish people. I posted in the previous thread that Ireland is in the bottom two countries for percentage of GDP spent on energy subsidies. It hasn’t really sunk in how much energy prices could go up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,512 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    I can see how one interpretation of the directive might be "We have to give refugees the same social welfare benefits as Irish/EU citizens", but I think it's perfectly reasonable to balance that against the other benefits received - i.e., hotel accommodation (including 3x meals a day and heating) - and to reduce the payment accordingly, taking into account distance of hotel from public transport, town centre, etc. I don't get why this isn't being done.

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    boards.ie default cookie settings now include "legitimate interest" for >200 companies, unless you specifically opted out!



  • Posts: 17,847 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Ochon, ochon. She’s got one foot in the grave and the other on the edge. Nightmare is right!



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  • Site Banned Posts: 7,421 ✭✭✭gameoverdude




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,439 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    Some man for the histrionics Hamachi 😁

    This thread well and truly jumped the shark from the get-go, a variation on a theme, so to speak -

    It is all going so swimmingly so far.


    It’s not helped by your lamenting the society your children will inherit, your exaggerated assessment of the Government’s handling of the situation, and your pretence that everyone is now living in a chaotic, maniacal environment, led by politicians who, according to your assessment, have no experience, are low in intelligence, qualifications, etc, in spite of having been presented with evidence to the contrary.

    If you have experience greater than theirs, you’re obviously keeping it to yourself, and blaming anyone and everyone else who doesn’t share your opinions of immigrants as being responsible for the society your children will inherit, as though anyone who doesn’t agree with you should feel any degree of sympathy for your children when there are refugees who aren’t nearly so fortunate to be able to be as certain of their future as your children can be of theirs.

    Your bar for what you consider chaotic or maniacal is obviously calibrated so low that it’s impossible not to notice that you apply it to anyone who doesn’t share your opinions, rendering it meaningless, much like the rest of your rhetoric regarding the Government’s handling of the Ukrainian situation.

    You’ve yet to give any credible argument that the Government were wrong in not putting a cap on Ukrainian refugees, or the impact it will have on Irish society, that isn’t based upon nothing more than your own indignation that anyone has the temerity to question your histrionic nonsense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,337 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    There is actually no confusion. it's crystal clear in our statue. They have the exact same welfare and work entitlements as Irish citizens.

    And as far as I know we don't garnish the income of Irish Citizens who have to avail of emergency accommodation

    So the reason it is not being done is because it would be illegal.



  • Posts: 2,814 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Whoosh. Right over your head Jack.

    It’s not Irish society that’s chaotic and maniacal..

    Have you any more rhetoric for me lionizing Helen McEntee and Roderick O’Gorman? I could use a giggle this evening.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,439 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    Ohh it didn’t go over my head at all Hamachi, I just chose not to stoop to your level, making the best of a bad metaphor and all that.

    I understand your lack of amusement given it’s been a slow day on the Ukrainian front, there’s been no news of Ukrainians seeking refuge in your cranial cavity. I admit I was tempted to point out there was no room for them what with all of Irish society occupying your cognitive real estate, but then I thought better of it because it felt like I’d just be rubbing your nose in it given Ukrainian refugees aren’t paying you rent either.

    Small mercies though (if not terrible metaphors), at least Bertie isn’t at the helm, and rumours of his return to politics have been greatly exaggerated, because the last time anyone was critical of his lack of leadership, he doubled down by telling his critics if they didn’t like it, they knew what to do -

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0704/90808-economy/

    He had no class though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Why are they getting so little in France ? IIRC They are not getting the same rate as the dole payments.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,337 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    France is a different country, with different systems, mechanisms and laws.

    I'm not so sure they are getting "so little" over there as unlike here they have access to the housing market.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,971 ✭✭✭enricoh


    The number of Ukrainian males coming over is in the mid 30s % wise n rising. The women n kids coming over for a few months we were told of at the start of the war didn't age well!

    The Irish Times: Long-term direct provision residents could be charged rent or fees under proposals.

    A source also said the Government is seeing evidence that there are more males from Ukraine arriving in the State. The figure is rising to somewhere in the mid-30 per cent range, according to one estimate.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,337 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    "A source" ?

    The CSO collate all demographics and publish them transparently.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 315 ✭✭CeCe12


    The TPD states they must be afforded access to housing, medical treatment and social assistance. It does not indicate the level of substance of the protection or state that support given should be on parallel to that received by nationals. It is open to interpretation. Our lot have chosen to give them maximum benefits when it was not necessary to do so.



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  • Posts: 17,847 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    It is interesting that they are considering asking working refugees, living in pledged accommodation to pay towards their keep. I think that every refugee, working or not, should be paying something towards their keep. Even a token €10 a night per person would save the government around €3 million a week.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 315 ✭✭CeCe12


    Councillor voices concerns over the number of Ukrainian refugees in Killarney and Asylum seekers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,337 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    It is open to interpretation

    Nope, our laws are crystal clear.

    53. A qualified person shall be entitled—

    (a) to seek and enter employment, to engage in any business, trade or profession and to have access to education and training in the State in the like manner and to the like extent in all respects as an Irish citizen,

    (b) to receive, upon and subject to the same conditions applicable to Irish citizens, the same medical care and the same social welfare benefits as those to which Irish citizens are entitled



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 315 ✭✭CeCe12


    Nope.

    Article 5.

    Point (2.1) and (2.2) open to interpretation regarding how it's applied.

    Even your statement "the same benefits".

    Does not specify rate to be paid, rather scheme they can apply for.



  • Posts: 17,847 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    You’re putting your own interpretation on it. You’re wrong. They’re entitled to basic social welfare, accommodation, medical card, childrens allowance for an initial 12 months with the possibility of a further 24 months.

    Not all refugees have availed of the accommodation as they’re living with relatives or friends.

    It’s great to see so many working. You wouldn’t expect the mothers of small children to work as the children need stability.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,762 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...most revenue is also coming from corporate taxes, so ive no idea why some are up in arms!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 315 ✭✭CeCe12


    I said nothing about children's allowance, every parent in the state is entitled to that.

    Other welfare payments are not set in concrete. The Law is all about interpretation and anything not cemented in stone is open to challenge. That is how it works.

    Mothers of small children working? Ever hear of a creche?

    Don't tell me they can't afford it, As I don't care, endless number of Irish parents working paying exorbitant creche fees.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,726 ✭✭✭Luxembourgo


    That isn't surprising, even when we were told it was all women and children close to thirty percent of adults were male.



  • Posts: 64 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Maybe the GP in Killarney or Councilor should have a word with Regina Doherty and Timmy Dooley. Modular homes and cruise ships, maybe they can flick the magic wand and create another 500 GP centers to cater for the influx🤔.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 315 ✭✭CeCe12


    I'm not surprised at them suggesting cruise ships. The Netherlands resorted to using barges on canals a couple of months ago.

    Surely suggesting cruise ships highlights how scare accommodation resources have become.



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