Was the government right to put no limit on the amount of Ukrainian refugees in Ireland? Read OP

John Doe1

It is all going so swimmingly so far.

Mod notes

This thread is to do with Government Policy surrounding Ukrainian refugees in Ireland. It is not for personal anecdotes of comments about the refugees themselves. That's exactly the sort of thing that resulted in the closure of the Megathread

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Honesty policy

japprentice

s g s

Bit early to count the cost to the State, and subsequently the taxpayer.

RobbieTheRobber

I agreed with the governments decision at the time. That does not mean the government cannot later consider setting limits. Especially if there is a wider EU plan.

Tonesjones

Temporarily yes but when rhe war is over all should have rights to stay removed with the exception of those with skills on the critical shortage list

archfi

Especially when there are evident multiple crises in a country, 'no limit' policies are a huge deriliction of duty by those entrusted to steer a country safely and securely.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119616354#Comment_119616354

...and send them where, back to a fcuked up country, that ll probably take years to rebuild!

...there clearly should have been eu wide agreements made in regards rapid expansion of critical infrastructure needed for this, including property building, as many eu states, including ireland, simply cannot afford to build whats needed using their own resources!

is_that_so

Do we really need another "Ukrainians go home" thread? Surely this can be tacked onto the big thread?

mohawk

At the time it was easy to see why they didn’t have a cap. It’s natural to want to help people fleeing from war. Now I think we are faced with a dilemma with how to proceed. Is it acceptable that if we keep accepting more that some could end up in tents, do we just keep putting people in hotels even if it kills off tourism industry in some places, Ireland is now facing multiple issues itself. The war isn’t the making of the Ukrainian people. I suppose time will tell

Things seem to be looking up in Ukraine so hopefully there is an end in sight. I think it should be acceptable to ask FF/FG the question about caps without them telling us there is a anti-immigration sentiment amongst some Irish people.

Thinkingaboutit

The Ukrainians we get seem to be the more affluent. The rural or urban poor just trudge or drive to another spot in Ukraine if their home becomes too dangerous. I don't think the govt was right to set no limit. Resources are very limited, particularly given the present mess / unaffordability or unavailability in the mortgage and rental markets. The phrase virtue signal is very applicable here.

Snake Plisken

Need to be capped and tell the EU to send them elsewhere. We've taken our fair share. Of course the spineless Government won't rock the boat with the EU masters.

Multipass

No.

It must be capped, like today. It has become a huge money making racket too...when locals and students are being displaced so the local Fat Cat landlord and building developer can move in Ukrainians for top dollar, we have a serious problem.

Also, I don't agree with all the benefits that Ukrainians staying in hotels are getting.

What part of Cost of Living and Accommodation Crisis for Irish people do the Irish government not understand!?

Strumms

The first duty of our politicians are that the citizens of this country and their wellbeing are looked after and maintained.

You cannot do that if you are facilitating the population jumping hundreds of thousands in a short space of time, hundreds of thousands of people who require cash, housing, healthcare, public transport, all free gratis…

no limit was an error.

everyone concluded it was appropriate to assist it was a terrible crisis but the no limit element was nuts, treachery even.

Loafing Oaf

I think it's time to deploy the ultimate Appeal to Authority

castletownman

On the phone to my step-granny last night, she told me that the local nursing home, with waiting lists to get a place in it, is closing as it's being turned into a centre for Ukrainians.

That is absolutely scandalous, and the irony being, its the grey-vote that consistently keeps FF/FG in power.

o1s1n

I'm working with a group of Ukrainians at the moment and although they are very appreciative to be here, they really really just want to go home. It's quite sad to see. I was asking one of the younger guys who normally works as a GP if he was at least having a nice time in Ireland and he did genuinely try to respond with enthusiasm about how beautiful our country is, but ended it with a very deflated '...but it's not Ukraine'.

Ten of Swords

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119617010#Comment_119617010

The megathread was closed so this thread is a kind of reboot attempt. If the discussion stays civil then there will be no problem

Gatling

They were wrong not to limit numbers coming from Ukraine,and I'm probably more pro Ukraine than most other posters on here ,

The problem was they didn't forsee the big increase of people coming here who are not Ukrainian or living in Ukraine,we know we have taken 40,000 + Ukrainians in 6 months but how many other nationalities came in that same time ,at one point 80% of people sent to citywest hotel and other hotels set up for Ukrainians fleeing didn't come from ukraine.and on top of that the government were publisising it's big once in a generation asylum seekers/ illegals amnesty, which has also seen an increase in people coming here looking for their chance at guaranteed protection and Irish passport.

Not have cap on numbers coming from Ukraine has led to this mess of unlimited numbers from all over coming here

maceoin.D.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119618165#Comment_119618165

I'm fully with ya there. Not only that but with the housing crisis going on and the cost of living crisis as well, there is a chance that some of the Ukrainians would have been better off going to another country that could accommodate them better. They don't always look too impressed with our current circumstances when I see them around.

timmyntc

If they're currently keeping Ukrainian refugees in tents, surely we have hit the limit?

Where will they stay in the winter?

Drakesha1964

Cap or no cap is not an issue. First - can this country afford it? Not really. Are there genuine refugees who have their homes destroyed and have no choice but to flee the country? Yes. Is there a vetting process in place? No. It's shambolic even though it's politically correct.

I am originally from Russia, My grandmother is Ukrainian, half of my family and friends are in Ukraine, I am horrified by this war and by the sheer worldwide madness which accompanies those events. My relatives refused to leave their homeland and their kids are sleeping in a cast iron bathtub - to provide some protection from the shrapnel in case of shelling.

I heard of the family who came here, got a place to stay and whatever benefits - I didn't ask. This family are highly critical of practically everything, food, accomodation. weather etc. They rent out their Ukrainian house and their car is driven by their friends who decided to stay... Nice... any comments?

Backstreet Moyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119618229#Comment_119618229

They will be in hotels, so anyone looking for a few nights away over Christmas is probably better looking abroad than Ireland.

Subzero3

No it was a terrible idea. Hopefully it is the Straw that break's the sheep voters back's when the election comes.

Subzero3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119618229#Comment_119618229

The gov will probably pay People what they pay hotels to house Ukrianinans in holiday caravans around the country.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119617727#Comment_119617727

Send them where?

As with all wars, the neighbouring countries take in the majority of refugees.

We, in the West, feel like we're always the only ones providing refuge when it's not the case at all.

Pound-for-pound, Moldova has taken in more than anyone.

Subzero3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119618492#Comment_119618492

So your ok with letting families stay in tent's for the winter when they could be be accommodated in other countries l.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119618452#Comment_119618452

And which current party would have imposed such a limit if it had been in power?

pauliebdub

It was the right thing to do when the whole country was at risk of being overrun by Russia at the beginning of the war. Now a huge amount of the country appears to be safe so there is no reason why many of these refugees shouldn't return home

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119618509#Comment_119618509

What other countries?

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119616353#Comment_119616353

its much easier to open the door a little wider if deemed appropriate of our ability and circumstances . It’s almost impossible to slam it shut once its fully ajar and the sort of tide of people and expectations start flowing …there will be resistance a plenty.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119618111#Comment_119618111

Moderator approved framing of the discussion. You should have sanctioned that post for trolling and this whole thread would have been a lot less toxic. Instead you affirm it by replying to it that this is a ‘Ukrainians go home’ thread.

dotsman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119618452#Comment_119618452

And what should the "sheep voters" do when the next election comes?

It is understandable why there was no limit set at the start, as it would send very confused messages. However as it also took place at the same time as a Post-Brexit UK and Britain threatening to move asylum seekers to Rwanda means we are no dealing with a lot more than just the Ukrainian refugees. Really, the only issue here is the Property crisis, which the Ukrainian crisis magnifies. But the Irish people love the property crisis and want it to continue, so nothing's going to change there.

Thou

News report with,

Oleskii Chernyshov, Ukrainian Minister of Communities and Territories

Regarding reconstruction of war torn areas, at end of segment he expresses his wish for Ukrainians to return to their homeland, but accepts some people who have fled will never do so.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.euronews.com/amp/2022/09/13/ukraine-asks-for-long-term-commitment-on-reconstruction-from-eu

jrosen

We have nowhere for them to go. So initially I think the open arms approach was the right one to have we have no long term solution. I have some friends who are working closely with housing/welfare payments etc and they have said so far the majority want to go home.

Housing is one thing, but I am concerned about how much this is costing the state.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119618492#Comment_119618492

Poland has taken in about 2 million Ukrainian Germany 1 million, Czechs about 500,00 , Russia 2.5 million (mostly forcibly deported),

But it's not just Ukrainans there's been a Large surge in other Nationals seeking a new life which is adding to already under pressure systems

Subzero3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119618520#Comment_119618520

Who ever they are, they will get my vote. FFG have made the housing fiasco a whole lot worse with unlimited immigration to a.non EU country . ANYBODY would do a better job.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119618861#Comment_119618861

But your post seemed to suggest policy on Ukranian refugees would be influencing many people to move their vote away from the government parties. If, as seems highly likely, the main destination for those votes will be Sinn Fein, how is that likely to improve things on immigration policy, from your POV?

Subzero3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119618950#Comment_119618950

When the time comes and FFG are on the ropes I am sure SF and the other parties will say so what ever it takes. Unlimited immigration is an easy vote.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119618492#Comment_119618492

Where?? Not our problem

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119618538#Comment_119618538

It was the right thing to do when the whole country was at risk of being overrun by Russia

It was the right thing to offer sanctuary to refugees. Definitely yes. However, at no stage, was it the right thing to announce a no cap on those allowed entry. All before any practical/feasible plans were put in place to house, and provide for them. I think we're still waiting on practical/feasible plans to house and provide for them.. all the while the no cap remains in place.

This government loves to make the glorious gestures to gain international acclaim, but they're extremely short on any consideration of how to meet their promises, or who is going to pay for it all. Sure, it'll be grand.

And the nutty thing is that all of these politicians will get away without any repercussions for their decisions, and virtue signalling. It'll be the average Irish person who will have to pay, or face shortage of services. This country is such a joke at times.

Bayonet

Yes obviously. There has to be a breaking point. Unless you don't think a million extra would break Ireland. Now you'd argue a million wouldn't come, but that's what limits are there for in case the word spreads in Ukraine that there are no limits to Irish hospitality.

Remember what happened when Merkel invited the Middle East to Europe. A lot of young men took her up on the offer. A few million.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119619206#Comment_119619206

It's Ukrainians and the others coming daily who tend to young males Asians and Africans and not just for the Short term ,they have already told us 40,000 Ukrainans arrived in the first 6 months but haven't given the numbers for people who arrived here who aren't Ukrainian

Patrick2010

Ukrainian army has got Russian army on the run but we are still taking in 1000 Ukrainians a week for some reason

Strumms

Energy crisis on the way.

Housing crisis happing now.

Hospital waiting lists through the roof.

yet…. No limit…

88% of prison places full….

a food shortage being mooted

yet…. No limit…

because taxpayers don’t count, citizens don’t count…. Got a harp on your passport be prepared to be fûcked headfirst under a bus.. never have the political classes, Martin, Varadkar et al. been so divorced from the realities, challenges of the citizens in this and of this country…steering us unsteadily and recklessly on this pathway to an uncertain future we are all on…

Ten of Swords

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119618626#Comment_119618626

If you say so Matchy, if you say so.

Let's get back to the topic at hand, if you wish to discuss this further please do so by PM. Thanks

DelaneyIn

I don’t care where Ukrainians and other assorted foreigners live. I care only that Irish people have suitable housing. It’s madness that people are coming here, not being able to support themselves and taking up housing stock that should be used to house the indigenous people of this country.

Nobody should be able to move to this country unless they have the means to support themselves. Ukraine is the second largest country in Europe. The majority of it has remained untouched from war. This is where the Ukrainians should be. Not in Irish hotels at the expense of the Irish taxpayer whilst simultaneously being hooked up to the welfare gravy train.

This simply cannot continue. We’ve taken in over 100k new arrivals this year. The borders must be shut or we will see serious strife in this country.

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119620191#Comment_119620191

Nope Virtue is all it is. No plan No end in sight. Most were supportive in the outset of the war. France seems to be getting away with not to many. My advice on this thread is don't take the bait there was a concerted effort last time. Some countries are starting to turn off the taps after finding out about Ireland. Calls from Ukraine for Ukrainians to Return.

aziz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119620209#Comment_119620209

Every single last one of them are me feiners,just want to ride on the eu gravy train when they know the time on the Irish one is coming to a end

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119618651#Comment_119618651

First sensible post of the thread in my opinion.

All the Ukraine situation has done is magnify the spotlight on the property crisis.

There have been tents dotting the length of the Grand Canal for many years before this crisis occurred. Once again, I will point out the banning of bedsits as being shortsighted. Students finding accomodation has been an issue every year for many years now. The cost of accomodation, because it's in short supply has been an issue for many years.

A modern, relatively well off country like Ireland should have a surplus of accomodation, not constantly have "barely enough", even before a crisis like Ukraine occurs.

The cynic in me would say it serves land and property owners well, for there to constantly be a deficit in available homes, which allows prices to rise - far above inflation rates allowing for healthy profits.

As an aside, every Ukranian I have spoken to, can not wait to go home. They want the war over so they can go home to safety. A few will stay, of course, but the vast majority will return once the conflict is over.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119620209#Comment_119620209

You've started my day with a laugh. FFG spending money on this scale due to “virtue”. Thanks.

Oranage2

These Ukrainians will be in jobs and paying tax well before many of our 'own homeless'.