N25 - Dungarvan Outer Bypass

Chris_5339762 · 12-10-2022 3:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119734192#Comment_119734192

Oh yes, Lemybrien never suffers from any problems, but if they're building a long section of new road under the idea of a strategic route, then leaving Lemybrien in place is just silly. You'll have (likely) 2+2 ending just west of Lemybrien, coming into the 2+1 section looking at the map, going through Lemybrien, then into an oldskool WS2 towards Waterford. It'd be a bit silly.

And yes, this should be after Castlemartyr/Killeagh of course. But it should be higher up on the priority list than it is. The million roundabouts in Dungarvan notwithstanding, the 60kmh hairpins going up the Pike on the main shipping route from Cork to Rosslare Port is just awful thesedays.

KrisW1001 · 12-10-2022 5:40pm

The problem with that thinking is that you keep adding bits on until the works quickly become so big that they’ll never get started. With a limited budget, you have to pick your fights, and that means focusing on safety first.

There are genuinely dangerous stretches of road elsewhere in the country that should be addressed before we look at capacity and convenience on a road like N25, where honestly there are no real issues apart from this one section at the Pike and the eastern approach to the Youghal bypass at Kinsalebeg. The rest of the road in Co Waterford is running well within the capacity, and it's safe (although I would do something about McGrath’s cross, the junction for Mahon Bridge east of Lemybrien, which is catches a lot of people out when heading east; perhaps making both it and the Stradbally exits left-only would improve things..)

The other urgent works are to get the traffic jams out of Castlemartyr’s main street, and doing that would solve the problems in Killeagh. The main justification for that will be quality of life for the residents of Castlemartyr itself - no road project will ever get funded on the basis of making car commuting easier: Greens or no greens, there’s a growing understanding that you can’t road-build your way out of traffic congestion, and the only thing that will work is diversion of commuters to other modes.

AugustusMinimus · 12-10-2022 9:56pm

N25 priorities:

Castlemartyr bypass.
Killeagh Bypass. Top 2 encompassing 2+2 from Midleton to Youghsl.
Dungarvan bypass.
Youghal to Dungarvan including new bridge over Blsckwater (expensive scheme)
Dualling Leambrien to Kilmeaden
HQDC upgrade for Carrigtowhill to Midleton.

KrisW1001 · 13-10-2022 8:48am

Mostly agree with that ordering but some of the works are a little too big. #4 doesn't need to reach Dungarvan, just join witht he previous improvements at Kinsalebeg. Beyond here all the way to Dungarvan is an extremely quiet section, and the existing road is absolutely fine.

But around there on your list, at #3.5 or #4.5, should be a scheme to upgrade the 12 km stretch from the eastern end of the Kilmacthomas Bypass to the western end of the Waterford Bypass - the terrain is difficult in parts (which is why it was excluded from the Waterford Bypass) so it could be very expensive, but it's a busy road (busier than Kinsalebeg) with a potentially dangerous crossings.

The existing Kilmacthomas Bypass does not need dualling, and I'd drop it to last and promote Carrigtwohill, if only to fix that lethal left-in-left-out at Oatencake.

(There's also a small stretch of N25 just before it meets the proposed N11/N25 Rosslare scheme that should be addressed, but that might be fixed by an extended link road)

Chris_5339762 · 13-10-2022 11:05am

I'd agree with that ordering as well but I'd amend #2 to specifically include a fix for the Midleton roundabout.

marno21 · 13-10-2022 1:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119736863#Comment_119736863

Current actual TII priority list is: 6, 1/2, 3/5, and 4 is not on the table whatsoever.

We'll get a closer glimpse into the priority order in late December when the allocations for 2023. It'll tell us more about plans for the N25 in east Cork. The Waterford sections remain off the table for the moment.

How long this will take is another question. For as long as you have Government believing that improved roads on a low population, low density, highly rural island is some sort of demonic evil act, we will remain in the transport improvement quicksand.

hans aus dtschl · 13-10-2022 2:13pm

Yep I don't understand how #6 is considered such a high priority by TII other than to open up lands East of Carrigtohill for development. Which I actually am in favour of, just don't see it as a "roads" scheme, rather a large-scale combined infrastructure scheme: N roads/L roads, rail stations and cycle corridor all need to happen roughly simultaneously.

But the most glaringly obvious N25 issues are definitely Castlemartyr, Lakeview and Killeagh as far as I'm concerned. And then you have the Pike and the Youghal-Kinsalebeg sections.

Dungarvan might be slow at times, but I wouldn't say it's extremely dangerous or failing to function. It should definitely be on the list though.

marno21 · 13-10-2022 3:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119739275#Comment_119739275

TII are quite keen on removing old legacy stretches of DCs though. This must be one of the few stretches with right turns across the median left in the country. They are heavily invested in a similar stretch of DC between Letterkenny and Manorcunningham on the N13. I would also bet heavily on this being a priority for Cork County Council to open up development lands. Between the Amgen site and Water Rock this route really does need to be improved to serve those lands.

A sensible option would be to launch a catchall 27km scheme between the Barryscourt Interchange on the N25 and the merge at the western end of the Youghal bypass rather than the ad hoc approach at present. Use it to address the legacy issues with the DC west of Midleton, Lakeview, Killeagh, Castlemartyr and other issues such as the blackspot at Burgess.

Dungarvan should be bypassed by a decent 2+2 from the Pike to near the Seanchai bar so that traffic not going to Dungarvan can completely avoid the descent and ascent that Dungarvan requires. Ireland's approach to transport development does not welcome such a project unfortunately.

KrisW1001 · 13-10-2022 4:33pm

The now-mothballed build was to be 2+2 exactly between the points you mention, with an intermediate junction for N72 and Dungarvan, probably using R672 as that access route.

I agree with the need to remediate low-quality DCs. There aren’t many left, and now that most of the country’s divided roads are now of a very high quality, with zero median crossings, the ones that are not have become more dangerous. Drivers now expect an unbroken median when they join a dual-carriageway, and this part of N25 dangerously messes with that expectation. Also, that Midleton junction westbound has a lethally short slip-road for merging traffic, causing through-traffic to jump lanes at short notice, which further increases the chances of an accident.

But lumping the this improvement jobs in with the Castlemartyr-Youghal one gives a scheme that is very big in terms of cost, and that might reduce the competition when it came to tendering. It would be better to design and plan it all in one go, then divvy it up as separate projects, but planning could be nasty on Castlemartyr-Youghal.

N25 - Dungarvan Outer Bypass

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