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Covid 19 Part XXXV-956,720 ROI (5,952 deaths) 452,946 NI (3,002 deaths) (08/01) Read OP

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭bad2thebone


    Note at the end of the segment, how they say the vaccines will neutralize and destroy the virus before you even get a chance to become sick.

    Unfortunately nearly everyone I know who were vaccinated became sick.

    As for conventional vaccines, well they definitely have a better standard than the mRNA vaccines.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,544 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    The "conventional" COVID vaccine has a far worse efficacy and higher infection rate than the mRNA vaccines (Sinopharm/vax) so that's another anti-vax talking point squished. Novavax is the next nearest conventional vaccine albeit using new tech for the adjuvant, efficacy also not as high as mRNA (but close).

    Did you think it seeped back out of the muscle through the skin somehow, or just stayed there forever like a tattoo? Honestly, explain the mechanism you think you were told about.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,090 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    mRNA vaccines create neutralizing antibodies which prevent infection of the mucuous membrane. These only stick around for a period of months. Also they are not a perfect match for Omicron strain. After that the vaccine still has an effect through long lasting cells in the immune system which are there to respond and protect against severe infection ie stop it reaching the lungs.

    The neutralizing antibodies from non-mRNA vaccines fade at a faster rate than mRNA ones.

    The neutralizing antibodies from previous covid infection also fade, but at the slowest rate.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,764 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Exactly ddarcy . Even the study raises questions about confounders which skew the results. And say more study is needed before any real conclusions can be drawn .

    That Ladapo guy has been railing with de Santis all along and is probably responsible for the high numbers who never got vaccinated in Florida , and subsequently died .

    Shame some people don't actually read the actual research before they post the headline articles !

    Was waiting to see who would be the first ...and he ( @walus ) didn't disappoint !

    Post edited by Goldengirl on

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,090 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Unsure why you are specifically saying this about mRNA... you havent shown any way non mRNA are superior.

    Against the virus strain they were developed to target they did work as intended.

    Given the timelines of development they are working astonishingly well against a new virus and still show effectiveness against severe covid against new variants. Their protection against delta variant was also remarkably good.

    If we were told in march 2020 we would have vaccines such as these we would have taken it as a win, hands down.

    Post edited by odyssey06 on

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭bad2thebone



    The pharma industry watered down their efficiency, and people didn't want to admit they took something that didn't work in stopping covid.

    It's like being a kid in December and finding your Christmas present from Santa in the loft, but hoping father Christmas will come anyway.

    You believe what you like, but I think more and more people have the honesty to know the difference.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,764 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    @bad2thebone do you think you and some others here are testament to "critical thinking and maturity"?

    When calling others names, and not reading others posts, and links to data properly, but repeating misinformation, is the stock in trade of quite a few posting here, on your side of the argument, I would respectfully say that we are not the ones who need to examine our consciences.

    The vaccine has protected against transmission by greatly reducing infection, before Omicron. The new bivalent vaccine should make a difference to this variant.

    Its not so much a failure of the older vaccine now but the success of the Covid virus mutating to evade immunity.

    It has even evolved to evade antibody treatments which worked for immunocompromised people who became infected before.

    There is only one monoclonal antibody working against Omicton in use atm. Others are in development but it is an uphill battle.

    The only thing keeping vulnerable people safe now is vaccination even if more limited than previously and the lucky fact that this variant is causing less severe infection in those who are vaccinated generally.

    Your memory of what happened earlier in the pandemic is deeply flawed or you are choosing to ignore / rewrite history. People who were not vaccinated or who had only one dose during the vaccine rollout were dying in their thousands following infection with Covid. All ages, more so from 44 up but nonetheless younger people who should never have become that ill.

    By your repeating that Covid was not a problem to so many, you are laughing in the face of those whose relatives died. Or those who are still suffering illness as a result of that earlier infection.

    While you type your misinformation on the thread who do you think you are helping with this?

    Nobody is forcing you or your family to take a vaccine. Do what you like.

    But lay off the villification of posters who agree with the science, and not a mish mash of invective and ill informed rants based on nothing more than baseless and unvouched opinions.

    I wouldn't be asking others about honesty, if I were you.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,944 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    I am surprised to see a date of July 2021 for that video.

    It was well known by then that the mRNA injections did not prevent the recipient from getting sick. Strange that it is allowed to remain available considering the huge efforts made to eliminate 'mis' and 'dis' information.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭bad2thebone


    A lot of posters have already dicested the so called science by showing up all it's failings. Failure that have been pointed out by other scientists.

    You then went off on a tangent that has nothing to do with the subject matter and got personal with the poster and other posters, that's where you lost your argument.

    Suggesting that I'm laughing in the face of people who were really sick or died because of covid is a very cold and calculating opinion.

    You say I'm posting misinformation and it's unhelpful, I'm not here to be unhelpful or mislead anyone.

    I think you're being mislead with your personal attack. And are reading my post's upsidedown or backwards .

    Anyhow getting personal with a poster just derails the thread. If you want to discuss the topic with me, leave out your opinion on what you think I think, or doing my thinking for me and regurgitating it it in a way that'll imply that I'm not posting in good faith.

    Have a nice day.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,090 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06



    I have several times now replied to what I thought were genuine questions you asked. Each time you reply making zero attempt to engage with the points and questions made to you.

    You continue believing what you like, but next time you "just ask a question" don't be surprised if there's no answer.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,544 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    People are allowed to call out and reply to all the lies and misinformation you are spreading across multiple threads, don't be offended when they do.

    I will point out that Goldengirls post centred on the vaccines and answered all your questions and more and your sole response was not to rebut or answer a single point but to attack Goldengirl instead. That is on you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,926 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    RTE banging the drum on hospital numbers again, suggesting mask restrictions are incoming

    474 people in hospital with the virus, up from 464 on the same time yesterday and 409 last Tuesday

    Does anybody know the figures for the much more dangerous flu?



  • Posts: 2,093 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    "Dying in their thousands? From 44 up?" Where, worldwide? Certainly not here. People in their 70s, 80s and 90s, yes they were hit hard. People from 44-70 very rarely died of COVID - some "WITH" COVID and severe co morbidities, sure. Overall the excess death during the pandemic in Ireland was about 1200 people. This is not some attempt to downplay COVID, but the media and the whole Irish establishment has worked hard to present a completely false picture of COVID to us. We were "all equally at risk". That was a nonsense.

    Edit : More accurately, population adjusted excess deaths in 2020 was 692 and 1,558 in the first 7 months of 2021. https://web.actuaries.ie/excess-mortality-blog-15



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,090 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Look at the ICU stats for admissions of people for covid under 70.

    The reason why they didn't die was because hospital capacity was there to treat them.

    Who said "we were all equally at risk"?

    Or did they say, we were all at risk?

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Posts: 2,093 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    We have one of the lowest ICU capacities in the developed world.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,090 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    And what?

    If you look at ICU and hospital admissions for other western countries you will see the same profile.

    If it can put you into ICU or hospital, you are 'at risk'. And the people it was putting into hospital included significant numbers of under 70s.

    In the US 20% of deaths were under 65 and 20% of those had no known co-morbidity.

    Post edited by odyssey06 on

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Posts: 2,093 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Many of these are incidental admissions - test positive for COVID and need to be in ICU for other reasons.

    The vast bulk of the COVID deaths in Ireland never made it to ICU because they were in care homes.

    If ICU were so critical at saving lives, we should have topped the charts in Europe with our poor ICU capacity and massive alpha spike in the winter of 2020-2021.

    Official CDC stats here

    image.png




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,090 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    What exactly is this meant to show?

    Your own graph is contradicting your own revisionist argument.

    So who said we were all equally at risk and what did they base that on. It was your claim.

    If only people over 70 had to worry about covid, how do 50-64 year olds have 3 times the risk of hospitalisation and 25 times the risk of death.

    So the risk is there.

    What else happened in winter 2020 to protect our ICU capacity and hospitals from being overwhelmed with covid admissions? You remember, the people needing ventilators etc etc

    And we weren't the only ones to implement restrictions for that reason.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Posts: 2,093 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    We were all equally at risk was the mantra of every NPHET meeting. They constantly trotted out anecdotal examples of young people and athletes with COVID, and even had 4 stillbirths because of COVID - something that happened in no other country.

    25 times a really really miniscule risk is still a very small risk.

    We had an enormous incidence of COVID in winter 2020 - so high the testing infrastructure collapsed and the actual numbers of cases were a multiple of the detected cases. The exact opposite of what you would want were you trying to flatten the curve. 2021 was even worse. We pointed the curve.



  • Posts: 2,093 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    This data only makes sense if they count people "with COVID" as opposed to "from COVID" ... unless of course, despite a massive vaccination programme, far more widespread and easily available hospital testing and a milder variant, a far higher number of people are being hospitalised now FROM COVID as a % of cases than previously.

    image.png image.png




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,090 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Your argument is just revisionism.

    When it suits you, you will use Omicron variants to talk about 'with covid' and then jump back to 2020 winter. Earlier you seemed to be claiming our ICU admissions in winter 2020 were 'with' Covid. Now you're talking about Omicron and 'with' covid.

    This is what happens when your argument is based on goalpost shifting. Can't keep your story straight.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,090 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    So, if it was their 'mantra', you should able to find this reference in every meeting. Go ahead. It is your claim this meant we were all equally at risk.

    They brought out examples of people across ages who were hit with severe covid, to show we were all at risk.

    So just because they brought out such examples, it in no way can prove your claim.

    25 times a small risk, from a highly infectious virus, translates to numbers going to hospital. It is a numbers game.

    As for your claims re: stillbirth, this is false.

    Although stillbirth was a rare outcome overall, a COVID-19 diagnosis documented during the delivery hospitalization was associated with an increased risk for stillbirth in the United States, with a stronger association during the period of Delta variant predominance.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭Tonesjones


    Before the war Ukraine had one of Europe's lowest vaccination rates.

    I hope they see being offered vaccination when they arrive and are being made aware of the compliance of the Irish people. They should be pushed toward vaccination.

    Winter is only around the corner



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭bad2thebone


    Absolutely spot on. I think some of the opposition to most people's observation of the false marketing campaign and lie's about those treatments are just clutching at straw's at this stage.

    I'll leave them to it, they're so last year.

    They're on ignore now anyhow, I can't be listening to them, sorry reading their strawman rambling.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,764 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    So who am I meant to have attacked ?

    I reserve the right to respond to posters who offer nothing except their 'anti everything 'opinion with nothing to back it up but bad fake data and ill informed statements. Most of which as you say are easily" dissected " and refuted with clear explanation by posters like the three of us being named and shamed by that other poster who posted the stuff , and then rounded on by yourself in another post .

    I think my response was civil compared to yours .

    If you have nothing else to add to the debate except supporting fake claims and knocking genuine posters who are just responding to set the record straight , it is you who have lost the debate .

    Now you " have a nice day "!

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,764 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Yes worldwide .

    But also deaths here especially in the last few months of 2021.

    Excess deaths is not the same as Covid deaths , but is numbers adjusted to a mean from examining all cause deaths .

    If you want to talk about excess deaths then , worldwide between 2020 and 2021 there were 2, 458, 471 deaths in the age range from 40 to 59 ..WHO

    That's a lot of parents , workers and not yet at the end of life , as some people like to say about the over 60s !

    They were the worst hit age group especially by Alpha and Delta , as mostly older people were vaccinated .

    Post edited by Goldengirl on

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 627 ✭✭✭DLink


    Welcome to Ireland, but only if you take our special medicine 🙄



  • Posts: 2,093 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The same WHO who declared monkeypox a global health emergency? Who had no interest in properly investigating the origins of COVID? That WHO?

    And a lot of excess deaths in India were due to lockdowns, both because of the collapse of other healthcare and by disease caused by the poorest unable to work.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭bad2thebone




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,006 ✭✭✭Stormyteacup


    At a time when the UK had published stats on Covid deaths to show they were heavily skewed toward elderly age groups and people already ill, and before any stats were published for Covid deaths in Ireland, the message here was that everyone was at risk.

    And in actual fact - that’s true. Everyone is at risk, just as everyone close to a road is at risk of being hit by a car. What they omitted was that risk was narrowly targeted. Simon Harris on Twitter and radio in early days, post UK stats, conveyed the message that everyone was equally at risk. I remember it clearly, haven’t a source just now, and it was very early in pandemic - but most definitely was after the identified risk groups were deduced from UK stats.

    So either Mr. Harris (18 previous Covids) was ignorant of established stats outside of Ireland during a worldwide pandemic, or he was bare-faced lying. I plump for the former personally. Examples of all ages groups hit with several Covid while not explaining risk categories is not trustworthy leadership - even if it was early days, data was there.

    Regarding stillborn babies, we are the only country to count them as Covid deaths. That is not a false statement. This occurred during a time when pregnant women were likely deterred from seeking medical help, outside perhaps of reduced scheduled checkups, as a result of their own fear and from societal pressure to keep medical facilities ready for emergencies and severe covid illness. Maybe it’s a case of better monitoring would have lead to no increase in stillborn babies?

    We may never know, but as your link is a pre-release from almost a year ago I would expect the evidence for covid causing stillborn babies to have been cemented by now with evidence showing proven mechanism rather than increased occurrence.



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