F1 2022 thread - see post 1 for rules

afatbollix · 10-10-2022 02:58PM

I think we have hit the nail in the head here,

I hope they bring in slow zones around incidents from now on as they do in WEC. 80Kph when the conditions were like on Sunday in that zone. Jules was also pushing to catch the safety car when he had his accident. Drivers are simple things, they will push when they see an advantage on track.

Burkie1203 · 10-10-2022 04:42PM

Red bull minor breach

Aston Martin procedural breach

TheChrisD · 10-10-2022 04:43PM

A few people on the r/WEC Discord got together and put up a fan breakdown of what happened, using all the onboards and various trackers from F1TV: https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/y0fkug/gaslys_suzuka_incident_perspective_from_a_race/

I'll copy the key highlights:

Race control were likely looking to clear the incident under the safety car, which would have been broadly safe if all cars had been kept in the train.
Recovery equipment was sent on track very early; before the safety car actually had all drivers in the train.
Gasly dropped off the driver tracker when he entered the pits, meaning that race control likely had no quick visual reference that he was not part of the safety car train until it was too late.
The dangerous part; Gasly was then detached from the safety car train and (correctly) drove past the incident according to his delta; which is not an appropriate speed for the conditions.
The incident was not correctly flagged, being covered under single instead of double yellows.
The light panels were potentially too similar in design, meaning Gasly had very little opportunity to react to yellow flags as he approached the incident.
The incident location made matters worse, requiring heavy equipment to be driven up the side of the track close to the racing line.
Alpha Tauri did not notify Gasly of the incident on the radio after leaving the pits.

McFly85 · 10-10-2022 05:23PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119726710#Comment_119726710

Be interesting to see what the punishment is. It can’t be just a fine because it kind of makes the minor breach rules pointless. Maybe a fine plus a cap reduction for 2023 and a sanction that will allow for heavier punishments for a minor breach over the next 5 years.

Regardless, I don’t think we’ll find out any time soon as I suspect RB will appeal.

Captain_Crash · 10-10-2022 05:27PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119726881#Comment_119726881

They’ve already made a statement saying they disagree with the FIA audit and will be appealing as if their understanding that they were within the cap.

They appear to have also taken a swipe at Merc and Ferrari 👀

flazio · 10-10-2022 05:35PM

Wish they would deal with this the same way they dealt with Ferrari's engine discrepancy, ie Quietly and let us concentrate on the on track activities.

Knowing the show man the FIA have become these days they'll probably strip Max and Red Bull 100 points from this season in order to take the title to the wire in Abu Dhabi again.

bucketybuck · 10-10-2022 05:44PM

Since Horner likes to run his mouth every ten minutes then they can't really complain when other things are done publicly.

Frank Bullitt · 10-10-2022 05:46PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119726881#Comment_119726881

You should read the Autosport forums, people are openly calling for Max to be stripped of his 2021 title. Despite not knowing how much RB overspent by and in what department, and the FIA haven’t actually conducted an investigation into it all.

They are frothing at the mouth over it.

Burkie1203 · 10-10-2022 05:55PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119727025#Comment_119727025

I presume they, and Hamilton too are also demanding meaningful punishment over mercedes secret tyre tests back in ~2014

McFly85 · 10-10-2022 05:55PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119727025#Comment_119727025

The F1 subreddit is the same, as is Twitter(obviously). Everyone’s an accounting expert now.

RB will appeal, but even if they lose that they’ll never in a million years start taking points off them - they’d have to be found to ridiculously overspend before that’s part of the conversation.

Frank Bullitt · 10-10-2022 05:58PM

https://twitter.com/ErikvHaren/status/1579486813198356480

Translate:

Their punishment should be a diet.

RoryMac · 10-10-2022 06:35PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119727025#Comment_119727025

This new breed of online fans is an absolute pain to listen to

flazio · 10-10-2022 06:41PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119727246#Comment_119727246

You think this is new? Throughout the Schumacher days dial up forums was full of Scum macher, Ferrari International Assistance = FIA, Finger boy Vettel wins again etc.

Andrew76 · 10-10-2022 06:43PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119722904#Comment_119722904

Not sure how you came to that conslusion based on what I said. In conditions like yesterday, where you have a car sitting on the track that requires a tractor and marshal to remove it, then yes, red flag it. That's very different to your "red flag for every car broken down on track" comment. Not like it happens every F1 race either.

Gasly was on full wets and driving slower than required past an object he didn't know was there. He did nothing wrong until he had passed the incident.

Anyway, I see the conversation has moved on to the budget cap, surprised the FIA didn't tell us by how much and in what why Red Bull overspent. If it wasn't on development of the car then slap them with a fine.

flazio · 10-10-2022 06:50PM

And then use the fine money to fund at least one more W Series race.

Andrew76 · 10-10-2022 06:53PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119727301#Comment_119727301

Fecker! Thought I had posted in the wrong thread. 😁

I've only seen one W series race so know very little about it but the cancellation news sucks for sure.

Ultimate Gowlbag · 10-10-2022 06:54PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119727275#Comment_119727275

True,give it few more championships and everyone will have moved on from Hamilton and be hating Verstappen instead!

Burkie1203 · 10-10-2022 08:17PM

https://twitter.com/there_is_no_if/status/1579520006169427968?t=VuScNPTQaOVwPcpjG3bEPw&s=19

....lol

El_Duderino 09 · 10-10-2022 08:38PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119727319#Comment_119727319

If the roles were reverses and Hamilton won and Mercedes went over the cost cap, this forum would be a lot less philosophical about it.

Sickpay is interesting though. If there isn't a substantial penalty, of one kind or another, then I'd imagine the teams will look into having staff take a few weeks sick leave every year. In other words, getting them to work from home and run their wages through a sick leave budget which is outside the cost cap.

It should be tricky tonpolice because employers can't discriminate based on disability such as mental health, but if those people wages are included in the cost cap, then it creates an incentive to not hire someone with a long term mental health issue (which can count as disability) such as anxiety or depression.

It's not clear cut.

thefa · 10-10-2022 11:57PM

Was reading articles on the cost cap and sick leave was one of a handful of specific exclusions called out. Maybe there is unverified sick leave or maybe there’s some misinformation floating about.

Nothing to do with the cost cap but it’s reported that Stroll gets $10m per year base salary, same as Sainz and Bottas and more than the likes of Russell, Perez, Ocon & more. Different level nepotism.

chicorytip · 11-10-2022 03:49PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119726961#Comment_119726961

I think stripping Red Bull of the constructors title would be an appropriate punishment for what is quite a significant breach of the regulations because winning it is regarded as a big deal for any team so having it taken away would hurt and be a harsh lesson. RB is the only team to infringe this regulation for 2021. Five percent is the equivalent of nearly two and a half million pounds of an overspend - the average salary for a driver in a lower team .

mickdw · 11-10-2022 03:52PM

Which title would that be, the one they didn't win last year or the one they have not won yet this year.

Frank Bullitt · 11-10-2022 04:00PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119730755#Comment_119730755

…they haven’t won a constructors title since 2013.

And also, this is the type of overreaction I was talking about over at Autosport. Big punishment for a minor breach…Jesus lads.

McFly85 · 11-10-2022 04:29PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119730755#Comment_119730755

Never happening. I think for titles to be taken away they would have to be caught out and out cheating - as in, having significant overspend and attempting to hide it - whereas this seems more like a difference of opinion of what comes under the cap or not.

Also, we really don’t know how serious the breach actually is, as in, how much was the overspend and in what area. I’m not sure if we’ll ever know for sure, I doubt this is something that will ever be publicly released?

My guess would be, at worst, it’s a case of RB chancing their arm that a minor overspend would be dealt with fairly leniently in its first year(and maybe naively assuming Mercedes/Ferrari would do it to an extent). If they lose the appeal they probably won’t take it any further and blame their auditors, and maybe get a reduced budget for 2023/24.

mickdw · 11-10-2022 05:13PM

It's a joke.

All the serious teams are building so called hypercars with F1 tech. This allows millions of costs to be pushed over to the hypercar programme when in reality the work could be benefitting the F1 team as much as the road.

Frank Bullitt · 11-10-2022 06:02PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119730888#Comment_119730888

There is also no malice at all from Red Bull. The FIA have even said this.

They submitted the accounts openly to the FIA...so if this is "cheating", they are rubbish at it. Along with the fact accounting is like a fine art as well, I was a sole prop for 5 years, my accountant would get me to move some savings around and expenses etc and get my tax bill way way lower, and that was just for me. Imagine what corporate accounting is like.

If anything, this is Red Bull doing what they do, and seeking an advantage within the rules just like they do with their cars.

RoryMac · 11-10-2022 07:31PM

I think the punishment should be based on how much you have exceeded the cap, 5% over the cap you lose 5% of your points or something like that certainly should be harsh once you enter the + 5% significant range

El_Duderino 09 · 11-10-2022 08:30PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119731596#Comment_119731596

The FIA said it isn't over 5%. But 5% of 145m is 7.25m. So it could be a decent overspend without hitting 5%.

I don't know what to think. They said the overspend is around catering and sick pay. But if they overspent then it doesn't really matter where the accounting is wrong. It means they had extra money to spend on the whole operation, including the car.

I'm not an accountant but I work with financial auditors and I know enough to say that accounting and auditing isn't black and white, a lot of it is based on interpretation and judgement. So I'll just wait and see how it shakes out.

This is F1 anyway. They don't have to slavishly apply the rules. They'll find a level of punishment that doesn't piss off Red Bull by being too harsh, doesn't piss off the other teams by being too lenient, but also doesn't encourage other teams to make the same accounting "mistake". That's the real trick.

quokula · 11-10-2022 08:57PM

Interesting look at the championship if you just take wet races. No surprise that Verstappen is still on top but most telling has got to be that Vettel, despite having arguably the worst car on the grid, is ahead of Hamilton when conditions bring out driver performance a bit more over car performance. Norris in amongst the Ferraris too.

flazio · 11-10-2022 09:18PM

Erm, Perez is top, not Verstappen.

F1 2022 thread - see post 1 for rules

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