Applegreen own brand chargers

kanuseeme · 03-10-2022 11:00PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119697882#Comment_119697882

29 chademo cars registered, Nissan provided the first chargers in the country even for Tesla owners.

ted1 · 03-10-2022 11:02PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119697997#Comment_119697997

And how many chargers was that ?

kanuseeme · 03-10-2022 11:10PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119698004#Comment_119698004

Look it up yourself.

You said none registered in September and Nissan contributed no chargers, you were wrong on both accounts.

You all are arguing about nothing, as if a few more CCS plugs would make a difference, it will be thousands of chargers that are needed, Fcuk me, a few plugs in coynes cross is not even worth talking about.

ted1 · 03-10-2022 11:25PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119698027#Comment_119698027

No , I didn’t. I said at least 1,493 and not 1 of them a CHADEMO. I added up the top 10, nine if which was a CHADEMO.

number 1,494 may have been a CHADEMO

mc2022B2TF · 03-10-2022 11:46PM

As I said previously simply from a business perspective installing chademo is silly. Applegreen are here to make money. Not to provide a public service.

Simple as that. I know it hurts anyone that owns a chademo veichle but unfortunately thems the breaks.

mc2022B2TF · 03-10-2022 11:50PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119697823#Comment_119697823

Didn't see this message until after I posted mine above lol!

Not selfish. I'm saying if I was the juggernaut that is applegreen and solely looking at making money then installing chademo is questionable with a view to maximising profits.

Sorry if that hurts - but it's a fact!

liamog · 04-10-2022 01:04AM

You all are arguing about nothing, as if a few more CCS plugs would make a difference, it will be thousands of chargers that are needed, Fcuk me, a few plugs in coynes cross is not even worth talking about.

Going from 3 connectors to 4 connectors increases the number of cars you can serve per hour with an average delay of 10 minutes from 3 to 5. Going from 6 to 8 (such as the installation at Ballymount) means you can serve 13 instead of 9. Queuing theory is quite interesting, the number of vehicles served within a given acceptable delay is non linear.

The simple choice to provide services for Nissan's abandoned speciality connector can have a larger impact than you'd think.

the_amazing_raisin · 04-10-2022 10:05AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119697898#Comment_119697898

Tbh mostly the Chademo brigade seems to be asking that a non zero number of Chademo plugs is installed, ideally more than one to avoid a single point of failure

It's the CCS brigade that seem to be insisting that there's zero Chademo plugs installed

I agree the installations should favour CCS and not be the 50-50 split that Ecars seem to favour. But I think it's unfair to insist that for example a two charger site only installs CCS, it makes sense to have one Chademo available

Ideally they'd install the charger in a way which allows the Chademo to be interchangeable with a CCS plug, so you aren't cutting down on CCS to the expense of Chademo

And yeah you might sit and say that the Leaf owners bought the wrong car, but the simple fact is that for a long while the Leaf was the most available EV for an affordable price. So anyone looking for an EV in a hurry really didn't have much choice.

And is the manufacturers failure to provide enough EVs (or a CCS to Chademo converter plug) a real excuse for providing zero Chademo plugs?

TheWonderLlama · 04-10-2022 10:24AM

There exists a Chademo to type 1 adaptors. Nissan owners can just get one of those, surely?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Evcars-EV-Charging-Adapter-Type-1-to-Type-2-Max-32A-Mini-Car-Charger-Converter-SAE-J1772-to-IEC-62196/dp/B08FJ4CZ31/ref=asc_df_B08FJ4CZ31/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=463099256147&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=16839289969901221275&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1007850&hvtargid=pla-1022957211113&psc=1

ELM327 · 04-10-2022 10:32AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119698882#Comment_119698882

Thats a type2 to j1772 connector for 7kW AC, is nothing to do with DC or chademo

mc2022B2TF · 04-10-2022 10:38AM

I'm not in any "brigade" just looking at it from the perspective of maximizing profits if i were the likes of an applegreen.

People seem to think that these big companies have some sort of duty to them - unfortunately that's not how it works.

ELM327 · 04-10-2022 10:44AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119697997#Comment_119697997

How many of those remain? Of those that remain, how many work?

It's not 2011 anymore. The vast majority of the initial charging network was funded by the EU, including the ten-t project. Nothing to do with Nissan. The only reason the early chargers were chademo only was because CCS2 wasnt even existing until late 2013 with the launch of the i3

ted1 · 04-10-2022 10:46AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119698932#Comment_119698932

What should happen is that the company selling cars with non standard charging protocols would start selling a converter for CHADEMO to CCS..

liamog · 04-10-2022 11:40AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119698807#Comment_119698807

I don't think anyone is demanding zero CHAdeMO, it's usually a request to do so in a way that doesn't reduce the potential number of CCS chargers. Take the example of Ballymount, Applegreen is deploying 4 units with CCS+CHAdeMO, and 2 units with dual CCS. That gives a total of 8 CCS connectors. If they had instead deployed the 4 units with a dual CCS+CHAdeMO we'd have a total of 12 CCS connectors available using the exact same grid connection. A relatively small change (compared to grid costs) would have seen a 50% increase in the number of cars that can charge at once.

AndyBoBandy · 04-10-2022 12:04PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119698807#Comment_119698807

I think it's unfair to insist that for example a two charger site only installs CCS, it makes sense to have one Chademo available

Luckily no one will have to insist anything... as commercial operators will install what they see as the best for maximising profits.... I don't see why Applegreen wouldn't let eCars coexist on their site (with CHAdeMO and all) for the foreseeable future until they can eventually kick them offsite..

Take these units in Coynes Cross. in 1 hour the CHAdeMO will dispense no more than 62kWh, but the CCS can dispense almost 3 times as much in the same period... or that same 62kWh in about 20 minutes.....

They'll want as much turnaround on these units as they can coupled with maximum revenue from each visit/charge, so the business case for installing CHAdeMO gets smaller and smaller every day... If they are installing the CJ unit (CCS & CHAdeMO), they know that a few years down the line that unit will most likely see scarce usage on the CHAdeMO side, while the CC (CCS/CCS) unit will be constantly in use on both sides.... If I was teh numbers guy in Applegreen I would be pursuing the units that dispense 3 times faster than CHAdeMO..

When is Nissan's Ariya (with CCS) available in Ireland? As that will truly be the nail in the coffin of CHAdeMO once and for all.....

mc2022B2TF · 04-10-2022 12:06PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119698956#Comment_119698956

exactly - i mean like that's what needs to happen. You cant expect for other to pay for something that means they may have to reduce their own margins.

Not sure of the complexity involved with the Chademo converter but Tesla provided a solution for their legacy models.

liamog · 04-10-2022 12:07PM

I wonder if it's a relatively simple operation to switch the cable and make the CJ unit a CC at a later date

mc2022B2TF · 04-10-2022 12:15PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119699254#Comment_119699254

thats a very good question - if not then you are investing in something that will be pretty much dead money in time

ELM327 · 04-10-2022 12:16PM

CCS and chademo use different protocols. I wonder if the cables (&ECU) are wired to support both and just require hardware to be CC or CJ, or are CC and CJ are different hardware

the_amazing_raisin · 04-10-2022 12:57PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119699293#Comment_119699293

Most likely the charger is fairly modular, so the hardware difference between the CC and CJ units should be pretty minimal. It's quite possible that down the line you could swap out the Chademo for a CCS plug if it made sense to do so

innrain · 04-10-2022 01:29PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119699293#Comment_119699293

found the op manual

They mention at the spare parts section a CPI (Charge Protocol Interface) for each cable CCS / CHAdeMO and of course cable types. So at minimum you have to change those. A is the CPI in the picture below

Interesting graphs nonetheless

I think we can ignore the green curve at least on the units at Ballymount. Pretty flat 200A but that means

max 80kW for 400V architecture. So Ioniq5/EV6 and Taycan to the win. It will not reduce the power once the second car connects, and it has 50/50 power split

ELM327 · 04-10-2022 01:36PM

Interesting, so there may be hardware internal differences too.

The charts are interesting, the 800v architecture only helps things if they are configured to supply 400a to one side if the other side is not in use. There's a possibility these may just be split 200a each side with no load balancing.

liamog · 04-10-2022 02:11PM

The manual mentions a few different configs avail for power allocation

Sequential - Charge one a time
Concurrent - 2 cars at once, but single car limited to max of 1/2 available power
Dynamic allocation 'First In First Served' - First car can charger up to maximum power, 2nd car can start if the 1st car is using less than 1/2 available
Dynamic power allocation 'Fair Share' - First car can charge up to maximum, 2nd car can start causing both to be limited to 1/2 max

I really hope the first in first served is used, to me it's the fairest as the act of a 2nd person plugging in should never cause the first to be delayed.

the_amazing_raisin · 04-10-2022 02:11PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119699247#Comment_119699247

Well that was because Tesla use their own proprietary connector, and they needed to provide something

I seem to remember there's something about the earth check on Chademo which doesn't exist in CCS and is difficult to fake, so making an adaptor would be very expensive