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Cork developments

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,566 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Or if a proposed development is clearly in contravention of a plan , there should be a clear process to show why that individual development is in the public interest , ,( possibly with a council vote )

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 594 ✭✭✭DylanQuestion


    It's called a material contravention. The report they did on it is here. It isn't as simple as An Bord Pleanala just completely ignoring the Development Plan

    Here is what the 2015 development plan (now outdated as the new one was put into place the other day, but relevant for this planning) says about tall buildings:

    “Tall buildings can play a visual role as landmark buildings and can make a positive contribution to the skyline of a city. Due to the visual prominence and strategic significance of tall buildings their design must be of a high standard. There are large areas of the city where tall buildings are unsuitable given the potential conflicts with the character, grain, and the amenity enjoyed by users of adjacent sites. In particular, high buildings should be avoided in the historic areas of the city. The City Council has identified Docklands and South Mahon as areas with the potential to accommodate high buildings. Maps 2, & 7 in Volume 2 specify those locations. All other areas of the city are not considered appropriate for tall buildings. Such development will be resisted in areas of special and/or significant character in the city i.e.:

    • The City Centre (within the 1869 boundary);

    • The North and South River Lee Channels (west of Docklands);

    • Architectural Conservation Areas;

    • Other historic areas of the city of architectural and historic character (including the old city approaches and the villages enveloped by city expansion);

    • The suburban areas of the city (apart from locations specified in the Plan);

    • Areas of significant landscape value (including Landscape Preservation Areas and Areas of High Landscape Value)”. [emphasis added]"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,250 ✭✭✭Mav11


    It would seem to me that we know that:

    1. There has been a complete failure of planning in this country.
    2. ABP hasn't exactly covered itself in glory particularly in relation to Cork connections.

    BUT:

    Section 4.2 and 4.2.1 of the material contravention document, if allowed by the High Court, would make a complete joke of any type of planning or negate the usefulness of any and all development plans (4 to 15 stories).

    Will be interesting to see how the High Court swings on this!!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,802 ✭✭✭Apogee


    TII have appealed planning permission for the hotel/office development in Jacob's Island citing the impact on safety of the N40

    Camden Place alterations (removal of rooftop restaurant + addition of long stay suites) given OK by planners




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,512 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    The foreign students with wealthy mommies and daddies that UCC want to attract to the detriment of students from poorer backgrounds they pretend to care about.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,073 ✭✭✭sok2005


    You can take foreign out of that sentence and then it strikes just as true.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,802 ✭✭✭Apogee


    Pete_Cavan has posted on the ports thread how the enabling works for Marino Point are now out for tender. This presumably confirms that any appeals have fallen by the wayside.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,427 ✭✭✭Shedite27


    Jacobs Island one is a bit odd is it? You can't build there because our ring road can't handle the extra traffic? I've seen objections like that for smaller roads but that's probably the best served location for cars in the city.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,567 ✭✭✭Timing belt


    No doubt they will be built and parking will be removed from developers plans at the councils request in an effort to reduce the number of cars on the road but no reliable alternative transport will be provided besides a bicycle shed in the new development.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 278 ✭✭Douglas Eegit


    There's a bit of history with the building. I think CAB were involved and that's why it was empty for the last 10 years. It's now finally been sold and hopefully someone here will be more knowledgeable on the future plans.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 30,657 Mod ✭✭✭✭Faith


    Oh, was that the place that had the kind of back terrace along the river? What was that called again?


    /edit: Indigo, I found it on Google.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 480 ✭✭getoutadodge


    "The foreign students with wealthy mommies and daddies that UCC want to attract to the detriment of students from poorer backgrounds they pretend to care about."

    This is the model all the third level institutes are going with. Irish students can go to the back of the queue or go to sunny Glasgow. It explains the rush to build (too expensive for Irish) student accommodation blocks all over the place. In the summer they can be leased out for summer rentals to a totally different market maximising yield or off loaded in block to the refugee agency. Another bonus is a huge pool of intl students added to the labour pool to do the jobs "irish dont want to do...bla bla" suppressing labour costs. Properly trained ....and most importantly paid (with pensions contributions) .. barmen, retail staff etc are so 1970s.

    A win win win



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 594 ✭✭✭DylanQuestion


    There is a casino/arcade thing going into one of the ground floor units on the Washington Street building. I'd prefer to see the whole thing knocked and rebuilt, it's not nice looking to me



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,802 ✭✭✭Apogee


    Unfortunately, it looks like Marino Point is still stuck in planning after all

    But a plan to relocate a fertiliser plant from the south docklands in Cork city centre – freeing up a tranche of development land – to a new facility at Marino Point shows just how challenging the delivery of big ambitious projects can be. The fertiliser plan is currently stalled in the planning process after objections from local residents.

    “It looks like we won’t even know the outcome until next year. Meanwhile, they’re bagging fertiliser in the middle of Ireland’s second city,” says McGettigan.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 494 ✭✭timmyjimmy


    Traffic has been ridiculous at Cobh Cross the last few weeks. Having this would make it a nightmare. Maybe another reason to open Carrigtwohill west train station.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,329 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Absolute nonsense. Anyway I'd be sceptical of this actually going ahead. In the current economic environment and with a lot of clouds on the horizon it's hard to see someone plouging €100m into a retail outlet centre in Carrigtwohill.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,329 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    If you want a depressing read, go to the NTA website and see the submissions made on Cork BusConnects. It's like a Facebook nimby comments section on steroids. Truly depressing.

    Post edited by namloc1980 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,411 ✭✭✭ofcork


    Still work going on at the prism site mobile crane there during the week.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,474 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    Didn't realize submissions were public, in the middle of mine at the moment. Not surprising to hear but disheartening all the same.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,802 ✭✭✭Apogee




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  • Registered Users Posts: 19 MindBent


    Good to see.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,802 ✭✭✭Apogee


    The Port of Cork Company (PoCC) plans to move completely out of Cork city centre in the next eight years, as part of a €250m Masterplan for the Port that will move shipping activities to the lower harbour. The PoCC has been holding public consultations on its ‘Port Masterplan 2050’ this week in a number of locations. A major focus of the plan is for the PoCC to completely vacate the city centre by 2030, and vacate Tivoli by 2040, migrating all activities down to the lower harbour areas of Marino Point, Cobh, and Ringaskiddy.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,512 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    But where will the Wine O Clock gurls buy new outfits?

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,802 ✭✭✭Apogee




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,630 ✭✭✭snotboogie


    It looks like The Prism is set to shut up shop for construction very soon. According to skyscraper city the developers have funding issues due to the family’s legal trouble in the US and the Port of Cork Tower is canned as well.

    Trying to add some positivity, I hope both sites can be sold on soon and will see development. The Prism has foundations laid so that should be attractive for developers. The POC site is iconic and the scale there has been established. The fickle winds of development in Ireland are certainly shifting towards public funding for apartment buildings, The Prism could be a contender for this. The POC site could become more mixed use with apartments and a hotel in the tower. Though the scale of it would put a limit on who could fund this.

    Ultimately though this is a massive disappointment. Even in the best case scenario, the two developments have been put back 5 years and it’s not unrealistic to think we’ll still have big hole in the ground next to the bus station and rotting bonded warehouses as the maritime entry to the city in 30 years time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 494 ✭✭timmyjimmy


    Any idea when the new appartment developments in Carrigtwohill will open? I'm most interest in the new path from the Carrigtwohill train station!

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,329 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    By the lake? They are working to finish them but they are for social housing and not for sale/rent as I understand. The road through Castlelake won't open until the schools are built and completed, sometime in the latter half of 2023/early 2024.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,555 ✭✭✭kub


    Clarendon gets the go ahead for Queens Old Castle redevelopment :


    https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-40992794.html



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭airy fairy




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,250 ✭✭✭Mav11


    Interesting article by Michael McDowell in yesterday's IT, written about the failure of planning in Dublin, but IMO could equally relate to Cork. some quotes on inner City living:

    Some people think that liveable means traffic-free, pedestrian- and bike-friendly. But liveability is far more than that. The most pleasant parts of our city were planned and built to be pleasant in the 18th and 19th centuries.

    With few exceptions, urban planning in Dublin (as distinct from the chaotic system of building permits which now passes for planning under the auspices of Dublin City Council and An Bord Pleanála) died with the reconstruction of O’Connell Street and the building of housing at Marino in the 1920s. Abercrombie’s plans for regeneration of Dublin have never been matched with any architectural vision since then.

    Instead, we are left with a sprawling mess of recent inner-city building little of which is designed to be pleasant and much of which is discordant, ugly or at best sterile and bland. The architectural fetish of function dictating form is, in general, lacking in aesthetic coherence with surroundings streetscapes and places.

    I must say when I see the glass box clamped on top of the beautiful facade of the Queens Old Castle combined with the other glass boxes springing up around the city, I have to agree with him!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,149 ✭✭✭✭the beer revolu


    To be honest, that just sounds like an old, irrelevant man grumbling about something that is not his field. It's just an irrelevant opinion on planning.

    Personally, I like the pic for the Queen's Old Castle. I like that the extention is stepped back from the frontage and I like the scale of it for the location.

    I don't find the facade og QOC particularly beautiful. It looks kinda fake to me (I don't know the history of the facade) and overly fussy.

    I do agree that planning, generally, is pisspoor in Ireland but it's not because of the allowance of modern styles, it the allowance of bland, boring buildings, be they modern or revisionist, amongst other things.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,250 ✭✭✭Mav11


    At least we're consistent in our views beer😁.

    McDowell, while I wouldn't be his biggest fan, sometimes hits the nail on the head particularly in relation to planning and design. I think that the problem which he identifies above, is not that any one style is bad and another is good, it is the predominance of a generic nature of the "fetish of function dictating form" architecture that allows for little variety, or at best variety within a particular form that is taking away from the attractiveness of our cities to live in or to visit!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,512 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Just what we need in the current office shortage crisis...



  • Registered Users Posts: 413 ✭✭EnzoScifo


    The reasons that so many new developments are function over form is due to neoliberalism and its obsession with "efficiency" (cost over value). Of course McDowell championed that with the PDs back in the day.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,250 ✭✭✭Mav11


    True, but efficiency and good varied forms of design are not mutually exclusive!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,149 ✭✭✭✭the beer revolu


    Calling a basic and accepted school of thought in architecture that's about 100 years old a, "fetish of function dictating form", is just ridiculous, too.

    



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,250 ✭✭✭Mav11


    I do remember as a child, being brought by the hand by my grandfather who was a mason, down the South Mall and other parts of the city and been told to look up at some of the marvelous plaster and stone work on the old buildings. I also remember talking to Seamus Murphy about stone work on buildings and the demise of same with the advent of concrete.

    I really can't see the homogenous style of building that is being put up now being admired in the same manner in 100 years time, if they are still standing. I suppose that regardless of any school of architecture which, I am not hung up on, it is good and varied design, with the emphasis on varied, that matters!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,149 ✭✭✭✭the beer revolu


    Oh, I'm not against ornamentation or aesthetics, at all.

    I'm just not a big fan of architecture apeing old and ancient styles. I am, however, a big fan of retaining old buildings where possible.

    When it comes to planning and architecture, while it seems we have very different tastes, I think there's a lot we can agree on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,250 ✭✭✭Mav11


    Faux colonial is always good😁😁



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,250 ✭✭✭Mav11


    Good to see a 5 min frequency planned between Glounthaune and the city! I hope its electrified.

    https://www.thejournal.ie/irish-rail-an-bord-pleanala-application-cork-rail-network-upgrade-5909582-Nov2022/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,427 ✭✭✭Shedite27


    Is there any suggestion where the Dunkettle P&R would be?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,250 ✭✭✭Mav11


    I'm guessing, but probably the west end of North Esk?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,329 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Not for a long time. The talk from Irish Rail had also been of favouring battery powered trains if/when it is electrified as opposed to overhead power lines with charging facilities at stations.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,494 ✭✭✭JackieChang


    I had a peek into the site yesterday and the floor space seems tiny. Any idea how many apartments are going in there and how many floors?

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users Posts: 120 ✭✭Patrick 1959


    Ya read on Skyscraper City about work stopping on the Prism . Basement work seems to be completed so hopefully it’s not the end for this Development.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,027 ✭✭✭opus


    New student flats have appeared on Popes Quay.




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭whatever76


    Interesting I had to look that up - looks to be showrooms for the Student accomadation out straight road - looks v fancy - Bottleworks | Cork | Novel Student



  • Registered Users Posts: 278 ✭✭Douglas Eegit


    Was wondering where the apartments were. Interesting location for the showroom in relation to the development itself!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,149 ✭✭✭✭the beer revolu


    I did wonder what that new place was!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,555 ✭✭✭kub


    I passed by the old Vita Cortex admin unit on the Kinsale Road side of the old complex earlier and there are a crew working there demolishing the old wall and fitting shuttering.

    Does anyone know what is the plan with the place?



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