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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,887 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    India is hugely reliant on cheap Russian fertiliser to enable it to grow enough food to feed it's vast population, so no chance, and that's just one of several hooks Russia has deeply imbeded in their flesh.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 478 ✭✭Run Forest Run


    Pretty sure I called Putin "Mad Vlad" a few pages back, but you keep stirring that big pot of yours and see what you can brew up!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 146 ✭✭Wes M.


    If I was Russian, I would be absolutely trying to get out by any means necessary. The future is looking increasingly bleak...

    From the Guardian's rolling coverage:

    Since then further details have emerged of EU goods that will be banned from export to Russia. The Commission wants to stop the sale of European appliances, including dishwashers and washing machines, because officials believe the Russian army is raiding such products for their chips, because they have run out of semiconductors.

    The EU also wants to tighten import curbs on goods generating income for Russia, ranging from wood, pulp and paper, cigarettes and cosmetics. Bags and suitcases, telephones and cars, paper and newsprint, women’s clothes, make-up and shaving products feature on a long list of items subject to trade restrictions that also includes many industrial goods, tools and chemical substances.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,670 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    As I said, Russia does not want to use it's nuclear weapons. However, every state is 'willing' to use their nuclear weapons if the correct escalatory situation presents itself. It's the whole point of MAD and having an arsenal of nuclear weapons in the first place.

    This annexation is a step forward in that process. It's the first time they'll be able to claim that Russia itself is being attacked in this conflict.

    I don't believe it will result in nuclear weapons being used for now as I don't believe Russia (or any state) wants to use them and as you said, nobody, not even Russia itself, believes the results of these referenda.

    However, I do believe it's a step forward in the escalatory process towards using them, which is concerning.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,274 ✭✭✭EOQRTL


    Exactly. Putin doesn't care a jot about how he's viewed by us here in the west all he want's is a reason to justify the actions he's going to take.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,274 ✭✭✭EOQRTL


    I've answered your question before im not going over the same ground with you again and again.

    Asking again and again isn't going to provide you with some sort of "gotca" moment in your own mind.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,739 ✭✭✭storker


    I think the west should take a good look and full sanctions not just for Russia but for any country that recognises the latest landgrab as legitimate. See if their special relationship with Russia extends to being a pariah state alongside it.

    (Just make sure to woo the Chinese first. 😁)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,274 ✭✭✭EOQRTL


    It's much more likely Russia will reach for chemical weapons before nuclear in this scenario but then again we are dealing with a madman so who knows.

    Only those of a miniscule IQ would see this annexation as not relevant.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 146 ✭✭Wes M.


    Apart from the usual suspects, you have to wonder how any self-respecting government, Western or otherwise can stand by and watch this land grab (think Portugal in terms of size) considering the Kremlin made no attempt whatsoever to make the "referendums" look any way genuine - people casting votes out of the boot of cars, armed soldiers hovering nearby and so on. I know political pragmatism will win out but Jesus, it will be embarassing to watch governments shrug this one off...



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,917 ✭✭✭GM228


    It's not entirely certain Russia view the MAD doctrine the same way as the West, especially with a so called "escalate to de-escalate' position.

    That said a simple attack on Russia is not enough to warrent the use of nuclear weapons unless the "very existence of the state is threatened" according to their current 2014 doctrine.

    But that's all based on two assumptions, that:-

    A. They haven't modified their doctrine without publication, and/or

    B. That they will actually follow their doctrine.

    The scary thing with Russian nuclear doctrine is the decision to use nuclear weapons is a decision solely for the President (same for the US mind you), it does not need any co-consent.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,363 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    Ha, fair enough...I had not bothered to re-read your posts. Been some other Russia-supportive posters that preferred to give him the respectful "President" title while telling us what a great job he's doing/how it is all going according to some plan, and it has been remarked on previously (don't have time to search about or give example, tricky to do that on the site anyway).



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,882 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    As I said, Russia does not want to use it's nuclear weapons.

    Then we've nothing to worry about...

    I don't think we are particularly at odds here, but I would disagree that this is part of an escalatory framework. Considering that Crimea has already been attacked (and most likely Belgorod), and that no one actually believe these territories are part of Russia, there is no doctrinal reason for Russia to use their nuclear weapons. They will by no means have been "forced" into it - if they continue down the road of escalating to that point it is because they did in fact want to use them from the get go. Ukraine is never going to step onto actual Russian soil. The conditions under Russian nuclear doctrine for their use will never be met. Perhaps Russia is constructing a flimsy pretext for the use of nuclear weapons having already decided to use them - but then there is not much we can do about it.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,882 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    It does not need co-consent, but it does need acquiescence from several parties. Some of whom may not want to live in an irradiated wasteland over an utterly stupid and pointless invasion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭Curious_Case


    I just think that giving it credence is playing into his hands, I don't think it makes any difference, it strikes me as cosmetic.

    It's like "I've given myself a shiny star, now I can shoot you".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,517 ✭✭✭zv2


    What effect on Russia would Putin using nuclear weapons have? Russian cities evacuating? Anarchy in the streets?

    It looks like history is starting up again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,068 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    India is now an agricultural behemoth.


    Problem is it's land is largely very poor. The monsoon rains wash nutrients out of the soil.


    It's Why Indian farmers apply fertilizer at rates yearly that would poison the ground here, all to get a lower yield.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 146 ✭✭Wes M.


    I must agree with EOQRTL, I think this gives the war a renewed sense of rightousness that the Kremlin were unable to sell to the people in the previous months. Now the country will enter into a total war footing, and all the extraordinary measures which come with that.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,882 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Does a total war footing mean millions of men fleeing the country rather than hundreds of thousands?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,068 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    The main reason I think Putin would use a nuclear weapon is the economic chaos it would cause globally.


    The economic destruction globally would be inestimable.


    He might kill a half million in Kiev with a small nuke but the damage to the global orders and economy would leave that in the small column. I doubt that there would be a nuclear retaliation.


    It may well be his intent to do so purely to collapse the global economy in the belief Russia will rise again stronger.


    It's possible but unlikely, probably.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,665 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Lyman will definitely be retaken in the coming weeks. What is perhaps more interesting is where the front line/line of conflict will settle down to for the remainder of 2022. Most of the clips/photos from Ukraine show that the mud season has already arrived.

    Although the Ukrainians took Bilohorivka a couple of weeks ago, I have yet to see much evidence that they have crossed the Zherebets river downstream of Lyman. If the Russians manage to defend the river there, then I would expect them to also try and hold that defensive line north of Lyman. Ukraine will probably expand from their numerous bridgeheads on the left(East) bank of the Oskil and up from the south and control much of the land in between. This would also have a PR benefit of completely clearing Kharkiv Oblast of Russians.

    If the Ukrainians do manage to get across the Zherebets while taking Lyman, then the Russians will almost certainly fall back to the high ground on the right (West) bank of the Krasna river that runs through Svatove/Kremina.

    https://liveuamap.com/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 146 ✭✭Wes M.


    They may not have anywhere to flee to with news of countries closing their borders to Russians. I read yesterday that recruitment offices were being setup at border checkpoints, so I imagine the war machine is doing brisk business in that respect...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,068 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    No it would probably mean martial law and no one does martial law like commies.


    Communist army 101:


    Mass forces of poorly armed forces and keep flooding them in till the opposition are exhausted.


    China, Vietnam, Russia etc etc all used it.


    I don't think that he'll take Ukraine but he might hold what they have through sheer weight of numbers going to the slaughter house.


    No one has less meas in Russian lives than Russian leaders.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,882 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    My response was overly flippant, but its not 1941. Russia does not have the manufacturing capacity to arm troops or the manpower to train them. They are not facing an existential threat to their own existence and have no allies.

    The far more likely scenario of a full of mobilisation is that it just adds to unrest in Russia and does very little to impact what's happening in Ukraine. On paper this was a threat 6 months ago, now its just sad.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,887 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    IMG_20220929_132358_715.jpg IMG_20220929_132347_566.jpg

    👌Relatives of those mobilized from the so-called "DNR" complained to Pushilin that their husbands were raped by Kadyrivs.

    I'd say Orc conscripts really are f*cked, but that seems redundant.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,068 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    I'd say they have enough AKs in storage to arm a continent.


    They may hold urban areas through sheer numbers of lads in building taking pot shots.


    The 4 annexed provinces have some natural defence advantages. The southern ones have the best of Russian soldiers.

    They'll be digging In and fortifying for months now.

    Through sheer weight of numbers they should be able to hold on, at massive cost to life of their men and civilian population.


    It's a small ask for a massive Army, at incredible cost to them but it may just be possible.


    If they were half decently run, trained and equipped this mobilization would be to completely take everything east of Dneiper at less cost and dead men.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    This could be interesting if true, maybe Putin has a solution to his mobilisation issues




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,643 ✭✭✭rogber


    If it's as reliable as your usual Twitter sources, unlikely to be true



  • Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,677 ✭✭✭✭antodeco


    A long shot, but maybe Putin is going to use these referendums as the "end game" for the special operations. They now pull out of Ukraine saying their operation is complete, as they simply wanted to "liberate" the areas that wanted to join Russia anyway.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,664 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    This would be hugely controversial within Belarus itself. The Belarussian people have no quarrel with Ukraine and see the invasion as being Putin's war. If Lukashenko tries to send 100k Belarussian men to war, expect major pushback in Belarus....people will not take this lying down.



This discussion has been closed.
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