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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    They do have some armor including IFVs often mistaken for tanks



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,790 ✭✭✭greenpilot


    Actually, not to be pedantic, but there are tanks in Estonia.

    "As of 23 February 2022, there are 43 Warrior Infantry Fighting Vehicles and 18 Challenger 2 Main Battle Tanks deployed in Estonia. "

    UK Defence Weekly.

    They probably refer to a repositioning of the British armour to the border.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,634 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Pure delusion. Why would they blow up their own pipelines that they need to sell gas to europe to save their crippled economy?

    Also, the locations of the ruptures in NS1 and 2 were just off swedish and danish territory. With all the baltic sea surveillance going on, any russian vessels would be watched like hawks departing from kaliningrad or near st petersburg.

    The Danish energy agency said it had found two leaks on the Nord Stream 1 pipeline north-east of the island of Bornholm, and a third in the Nord Stream 2 pipeline in Swedish waters south-east of the island.

    ...

    The news magazine Spiegel, quoting government sources, said officials were not ruling out sabotage, designed to cause further uncertainty on Europe’s energy markets.


    A European security source told Reuters news agency there were “some indications that it is deliberate damage”, adding it was still too early to draw conclusions. They added: “You have to ask: Who would profit?”

    The drop in pressure comes after some politicians on the far right and far left of Germany’s political spectrum have started calling for Nord Stream 2 to be opened for gas deliveries to Europe, in defiance of Germany’s stated solidarity with Ukraine.

    The only assertions that Russia sabotaged 3 of their own gas pipelines (crucial leverage against EU also) is from posters on here. It simply is not based in reality.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,798 ✭✭✭✭DrumSteve


    Yup and I'd imagine that threat to annihilate the Black Sea fleet is not made in a vacuum.

    What that threat is really saying is the west is all in once that nuke drops.

    Which circles back to Medvedev saying the west is bluffing about backing up Ukraine. He thinks they won't, but then again, we don't think Russia will nuke Ukraine. Mad game.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,790 ✭✭✭greenpilot


    Not necessarily. An attack on the Black Sea Fleet would certainly be part of a wider attack on Russian forces across Ukraine, together with Russian Command and Control.

    Personally, I don't think it will come to this. The Russian Generals are not stupid. Through the established secret back channels between Russia and the US, I strongly believe that if things were about to come to a head, the Russian military would err on the side of caution. They certainly don't want to see the destruction of their country, their population ( civil and military), what remains of their forces and their cultural and heritage sites. At that stage, when the US gives them a heads-up ( and they will) and an ultimatum of the upcoming destruction, I believe that Putin will be compromised and a time-out will finally be called. Russia has too much to lose at this stage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,781 ✭✭✭Apiarist


    Putin: I want the East and the South of Ukraine now, the rest later. Don't send weapons to them. I have nukes.

    Americans: You are losing to Ukrainians, your army is collapsing. Get out of the war, cut the losses, don't you see the longer it continues the more Russians are dying needlessly, your country's economy is ruined.

    Putin: My serfs have failed me, I will mobilize more and send them in human wave attacks until Ukrainians are sick of fighting. You won't stop me, I have nukes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Oh dear.

    Untitled Image

    So Swedish 'renewables' is counting hydro and mudered trees.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,790 ✭✭✭greenpilot




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 478 ✭✭Run Forest Run


    A powerful military industrial complex, needs enemies in order to justify it's existence. (one of many theories espoused)

    I think Putin made tentative overtures for Russia to join NATO during the Clinton administration, but nothing ever came of it. He was quoted as saying that Clinton was open to such discussions, but the rest of the US delegation "got very nervous". Whatever that means exactly.

    But then George Bush happened, and relations started to go south from this point. Big surprise there. I think it was around this time that Putin started using much more bullish rhetoric, like saying "Ukraine is not a country" etc. in response to planned NATO enlargement.

    And to think, all bush ever really got was a shoe thrown at his head. Remarkable really when you think about it.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,398 ✭✭✭SortingYouOut


    Makes no sense whatsoever. Leave your personal feelings aside and think about this logically. Why in god's name would they blow up their two best methods of exporting gas into Europe? They've already cut off their nose to spite Europe's face by turning the gas off, blowing up the entire pipeline would make no strategic sense. It's like backing yourself into a corner and then cementing yourself there.

    Beverly Hills, California



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    I rather agree with you, so the correct US response to the use of a nuke in Ukraine should probably be an all out first strike on Mordor. and their ballistic missile subs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,395 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Well it's a red herring in the context of this thread but I wouldn't remotely be surprised if the energy industry comes up with some other solution in a decade or two. To churn the market again and all these huge wind turbines will be left to crumble away as industrial eyesores.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,395 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Ah no, an attack by Russia on commercial tankers could only happen in the context of open war with the 'west'. Many steps to that and events that could intervene.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    @Run Forest Run . I think it was around this time that Putin started using much more bullish rhetoric, like saying "Ukraine is not a country" etc. in response to planned NATO enlargement..

    Nonsense.

    He's only started the Ukraine is not a real country , Ukrainian is not a real language

    Very much recently.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,140 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    I wonder will we see the blowing up of LNG tankers headed for Europe as well? Just as they arrive within sight of the coast would provide the biggest spectacle, capable of burning people a couple of kilometres away.

    Russia blowing up LNG tankers, especially just off the cost with casualties on land, would be considered an act of war against the country to which the gas is destined. We've quite a long way to go before anything like that could be considered a possibility.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭Curious_Case


    Maybe, but it's an additional step they can signal, and subsequently take.

    At present they have threatened massive conventional use, and that won't change.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,815 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Europe does not import energy from Russia, it imports fuel so they are very much still responsible for it (otherwise we'd be talking about Saudi Arabia as the biggest polluter in the world). Peterson's comments are simply exactly as stupid as they sound.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,798 ✭✭✭✭DrumSteve


    While it's not a smart move for Russia it's a very smart move for Putin, as he's removing any potential leverage whoever is going to replace him holds.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,349 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    Why would anyone else bother do it either, and who would be reckless enough to take an action like that?

    If it emerges it is not an accident/natural, maybe they needed to get rid of (more of) their gas or something?

    They can't store it all and can't sell it now and they don't want to close up the wells I suppose (if that is even possible).

    Maybe they are having trouble burning it off or venting it to the air, so they can now discharge it into the sea via the big pipes they have (now) blown holes in if that is what they did + make it Germany's/Denmark's problem.

    Russia's leadership (Putin) don't really give a f-ck about anyone else, and there seems to be no bottom there.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    What - you do know that Russia shut down NS1 because it had decided to not export gas anymore?

    Russia shuts off Nord Stream gas pipeline indefinitely

    So it's no loss to blow a repairable hole in something they are no longer are using or need. They are not exporting gas to Europe and probably don't see any prospect of doing so for years, or ever. What did you think Scholz was just doing in the UAE, getting a tan?

    Germany secures more gas shipments as Scholz visits Gulf.

    They didn't blow up the whole pipeline, they blew a hole in it - the gas is bubbling up in only one place.

    The US have absolutely no need to have done this because their objective of those pipelines not being used had already been met.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,398 ✭✭✭SortingYouOut


    Yes but all those theories have been plucked from nowhere and are all a bit of a stretch.

    There's plenty of reason why others would do it, Russia are one of the few who wouldn't benefit from this in the long run. I just can't see why they would do it.

    Beverly Hills, California



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,398 ✭✭✭SortingYouOut


    It has been reported that the damage is quite substantial given the drop in pressure that resulted, obviously the entire pipeline hasn't been blown up.

    But why blow it up then if turning the gas off would have the same impact? Why create unnecessary damage and costs, when you can just keep the flow off?

    Beverly Hills, California



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,142 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    So your saying Russia deliberately sabotaged nordstream as a threat to show what they could potentially do to other pipelines feeding Europe?

    Bit extreme as surely it would have made more sense to leave nordstream as a viable gas provider and sabotage the other pipelines leaving Europe with a choice to make?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,349 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    Yep they have been plucked from my fundament as they are actually the only reason I can think of right now if it is deliberate....unlike you I can't actually see a reason for anyone to be so reckless. I doubt there will be any more gas delivered through those pipelines while Putin is in power whatever happens IMO. Afair, Russia have been venting & burning large amounts of gas since they cut off the supply through the Nordstream (1) pipeline.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,946 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    There were plenty of enemies for the US to choose from, far more formidable than the Russian military post USSR collapse in the 1990's

    I think it was the out and out corruption in Russia that thwarted their efforts to join as opposed to the fact that "It's Russia"

    In relation to the Ukraine thing, I think it was only recently that he began to say that, as separatists began to take control/ask for help (I think they are an armed minority as opposed to majority)

    It was only just over 30 years ago that Luhansk and Donetsk voted to leave the USSR and form Ukraine with over 83% of the Yes vote and and a rough 65% turnout (Crimea is different 54%, with only 37% turnout) It should also be noted that 55% of ethnic Russians voted for Ukrainian independence.

    It actually kinda sends shivers down my spine a bit when I think about how opinions on borders can change (if indeed they have changed) in as little as 30 years. I say that with reference to our own border poll which is now likely to happen in the next 10 years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,919 ✭✭✭GM228


    They are not exporting gas to Europe and probably don't see any prospect of doing so for years, or ever

    What about the Yamal-Europe pipeline, the Urengoy-Pomary-Uzhgorod pipeline etc?

    They didn't blow up the whole pipeline, they blew a hole in it - the gas is bubbling up in only one place.

    There are at least three, two in NS1 and and one in NS2.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Next you'll be telling me there is no prospect of Russia invading Ukraine or of them ever mobilising or of them using nuclear weapons as a threat.

    No one is going to start lobbing nukes at Russia if an LNG tanker semi-mysteriously blows up. Anyway, I don't think it likely until after other cards have been played, like Norwegian piplines springing leaks. It was just an afterthought speculation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,398 ✭✭✭SortingYouOut


    Aye but even if they couldn't continue burning it off (is there a reason why this would be the case), would it not make more sense to address that problem instead of blowing holes in the pipeline?

    Beverly Hills, California



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui




This discussion has been closed.
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