Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

BoJo banished - Liz Truss down. Is Rishi next for the toaster? **threadbans in OP**

1170171173175176297

Comments

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Can you point out any of this "anti-Brit" sentiment? Anti-tory sure, "anti-Brit"...no. You seem to be blissfully unware of how bleak UK economic forecasts are these days, mostly down to brexit...but lets just gloss over that like most of their media does. How about her performance as Foreign Secretary regarding the Northern Ireland Protocol, does that not give you hint as to how she "will tackle the relationships with ourselves and NI", or has that passed you by too?

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,910 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    No, it isn't. It's just more silly strawmen as per usual.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,933 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Are the "we" who live, have lived or have friends and family living there not allowed to have an interest outside of anglo Irish relations ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,738 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    So, does she want to buy the turnips in the back of our truck or what?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,541 ✭✭✭Patser


    Wife of one of the minor cabinet ministers she demoted today, is pulling no punches and getting a lot if attention/support; so it does show already there's dissension and division in the party





  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,700 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    However, those involved in constituency work have been radicalised by Brexit and would never vote for a man of colour. The MPs look outside of the organisation to the electorate. Labour went into the doldrums post-Blair because it had similar problems of jumping to the insular organisation's tune rather than the electorate.

    Come off it.

    Kwasi Kwarteng is chancellor, James Cleverly is foreign secretary, Suella Braverman is Home Secretary, and Kemi Badenoch has been appointed international trade secretary.

    For a party that we're told is misogynistic racist and Islamophobic, they sure don't have a top cabinet that reflects that accusation.

    If one says the Tories would do anything to stay in power then I can't see why they wouldn't vote for a PM of colour if they thought electing one as PM would keep them in power.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 95,124 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Liz didn't win.

    Sunak threw the election by shooting himself in the foot not lending 30 votes to Kemi.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,910 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    This nonsense again.

    The likes of Kwarteng are in the bluest seats in the country. Last time I checked, the Tory party membership don't vote for cabinet appointments.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 72,887 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Maybe Truss doesn't actually want to support Mercer's mad plans to let war criminals get away with it. Probably not unfortunately



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,933 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    That's the thing. Tory MPs would do anything to stay in power including putting a BAME person forward if they were electable but because the electorate don't what said person then they are not electable.

    I don't think Tory MPs care what race, religion, sexual orientation (including fetishes) a person is as long as the person is from the right class. The members are another story.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,021 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    Or Simon Harris.

    Interesting times ahead to see what Truss will do? She is a bit of an unknown quantity.



  • Posts: 2,077 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,071 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    It seems very odd that she didn't go with any Sunak supporters in the cabinet. Based on the MP votes, and getting 57% of the members, she is not exactly leading a tight-knit party. Ignoring nearly half the party for the top jobs seems like a pretty short-sighted position. Of course, the Tory party are great at getting behind the leader to win so they will ultimately support her if she is working out, but will be all too ready to move if there are issues.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,720 ✭✭✭rovers_runner


    She has already flip flopped on a number of important decisions so I would doubt her suitability for this job seeing she runs with the crowd in order to preserve herself. She has already backed herself into a corner with her own party by having to commit to massive subsidies for energy.

    Her contempt for the NI situation may be in part direction by the Tories wanting to wash their hands of the North, but it's going to cause mayhem for the foreseeable.


    Harris is treated as a patsy, although above all of them all he does appear to be straight with people which does count for a lot. McEntee like Leo is very much dependant on how the wind is blowing and completely self serving.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,910 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I'd disagree.

    I've had the displeasure of knowing some southern Tories. Younger sorts are lovely but the older one are wealthy and vile. Their wealth means they can afford to vote on the basis of nonsense issues like refugees that'll never be allowed anywhere near places like Royal Tunbridge Wells. The only thing they hate more than BAME people is anything that remotely resembles Socialism.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,933 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    That's the kinda thing used to happen when there were adults running the show.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,933 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    I don't think you are disagreeing with me.

    That would be my view of a lot of home counties Tories too.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,669 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I'm a bit confused about your examples of "on the one hand and on the other". Both Truss and Corbyn are examples of the idiotic membership voting system overriding the wants of the parliamentary party and creating an unstable situation.

    Whatever about benefits with regards to membership and income, there are no redeeming political features of the system.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,669 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    There is a pretty important distinction to be made between Tory MPs, Tory members and Tory voters.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,849 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout



    Yes they are both examples of the membership foisting an unpopular leader on the MPs but in the case of the Tories, they could easily get rid of theirs with a vote of confidence and effectively block that person from making it to a run-off.

    The majority of the Labour party MPs seemed to despise Corbyn but they couldn't get rid of him. They voted no confidence in him in 2016 but he just stood again for leader and was voted back in by the party membership. If the Tories went by the same rules, it is likely that Boris Johnson would still be leader and PM today, having just won a vote of the party members.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,979 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    To be honest I would go even further and say the results of the membership voting system is an example of how broken FPtP is as both parties under PR/STV would each have long since split into 2 if not 3 separate other parties. FPtP is forcing them both to hold far too large swathes of each political wing under a single banner for fear of losing power to the other.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,849 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout



    I full support Johnny Mercer not getting a portfolio....even if it is for the wrong reasons. His attitude to the crimes committed, with impunity, by some members of the British Army, are the very worst of British chauvinism in action.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,669 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    ah ok yes, fair. The intricacies of the systems do seem to favour the Tory one. They're both rubbish though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,686 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Is the role of the party ensconced in the UK Constitution? And, is the process to determine the PM mentioned in the Constitution beyond "MP's will choose the prime minister" or some such? Because I don't think anyone would start the day coming up with an idea for government that includes political parties, official voting party membership (independent of who votes in general elections) and so on. Seems like it's been ad-libbed as time has gone on.


    The US Constitution, for all its numerous failings, doesn't mention political parties at all. Does the UK Constitution talk about them?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,813 ✭✭✭joe40


    UK don't have a constitution. A position that is increasingly causing issues.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,669 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    They don't have a written/codified constitution, but they do have one. Its just based on disparate elements of precedent and is fundamentally different from e.g. ours in that Parliament (but not the executive) is ultimately sovereign and cannot be constrained.

    And no is the answer.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,536 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    I would echo those sentiments, I will add though, it has been something to see how Irish people have convinced themselves that they know how and for whom the Brits (and Americans) should be voting for...it's been a sight to behold!! Despite the fact that the typical American and Brit are vastly more politically aware than the typical Irish person.

    The main difference as I see it between the US and Britain is their two party system, where they will often face turbulence but can and always do veer away from government overreach. More importantly, these two countries in particular have witnessed massive decline in trust in their media over the last decade...so they are influenced the least by their media outlets, liberal/left/right/conservative it doesn't matter to them, they trust very little of it.

    https://www.poynter.org/ethics-trust/2021/us-ranks-last-among-46-countries-in-trust-in-media-reuters-institute-report-finds/

    We are some bit behind on that score, and we seem oblivious to the very real possibility that we will soon be seeing the political turmoil the Brits/Americans have been experiencing over the last 5/6 years...only our media and political establishment have only one gear, complete group/herd think and as usual it is our young that will suffer who will no doubt have to flock in number to Britain or the US for opportunity in the future, us Irish people, we like to think we are more progressive than both nations, but in actual fact, we are behind as always!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,429 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    The two party system seems to lend itself to deep division and wealth inequality. One of the main reasons Europe doesn't appear to have down this route is because of multi party coalitions, which effectively prevents the system being hijacked by one party (the one exception is Italy, which has always been a political basket case and which has the same type of dodgy media billionaires the US and the UK has).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,536 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    And yet the US and Britain have never succumbed to authoritarianism over the last century or so when so many have. The Brits were never going to last in the EU, they just weren't a good fit. It is to these countries that we have sent our youth so many times in that time too you should remember!



  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,785 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Both are getting closer and closer to that though , the US in particular.

    It isn't a co-incidence that countries with FPTP electoral systems (or worse like the Electoral college) have the most divisive politicians and distrust in the media - That's driven by the idealogues and proto-authoritarians that are the driving forces in those 2 party systems.



Advertisement