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Ukraine (Mod Note & Threadbanned Users in OP)

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  • Registered Users Posts: 213 ✭✭bobowen


    You know what it is pathetic. You've been shown the exact vehicle that was on the highway and you still stubbornly maintain that its not the same vehicle. You have no evidence of Russians with a Tochka U in transit or preparing for launch. I humoured you and went down a pointless rabbit hole of proving to you that those particular BAZ vehicle models are used for a multitude of uses. Everyone can see that you keep moving the goalposts in a desperate attempt to avoid being proven wrong.

    Any neutral observer would agree that the vehicle above is the same vehicle as the one in your grainy twitter video. Its beyond parody that it is being insisted upon as proof that the Russians bombed a Train station of a territory populated with their own native speakers that they are trying to liberate. Almost as bad as trying to say the Russians would be stupid enough to write "for the Children" in Russian on one of their own rockets.

    But such is the incredible amount of denial in this Ukrainian war of propaganda.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,272 ✭✭✭fash


    B****it. Again, please stop lying:

    Here, again, are the 2 photos from 27 & 28 seconds- showing the twin indents on the driver side and the distinctive 9P129 "wheel well" at the rear.

    Your first vehicle has neither.

    Your second vehicle conveniently doesn't show either detail and the details it does show are different to the 9P129.

    The 9P129 is used exclusively for launching Tochka-U rockets - and you can see the rockets in the KamAZ trucks in the convoy.

    By definition this is evidence that Russia is using Tochka-U rockets.

    Whether you think it sufficient is a separate story - although I would note that even with incredibly weak evidence, any reasonable person will believe Russia continues to use Tochka-Us rather than- as you would have everyone believe - Russia decided to retire their gigantic stockpile of Tochka-Us to a retirement home somewhere in Vladivostok (while they pull 50 year old T-62s out of storage and run out of rockets).

    And again, this is only one of many, many clips of the 9P219 being used by the Russians and you haven't even addressed the various statements by Russians confirming usage of the Tochka-Us either.


    EDIT to add: it was you who stated that there was no evidence the Russians were TRANSPORTING Tochka-Us - now you, again despite the Mod warning, shift goalposts to "this is supposed to prove bombing!?".

    As regards the Russian "for the children", the Russian grammar is better translated as "on behalf of the children" - the Russian soldiers- initially at least- believing the rubbish fed to them by Putin.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,780 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout



    I must say I'm not a fan of recording POWs regardless of their background. Recording them ringing their relatives especially.



  • Registered Users Posts: 213 ✭✭bobowen


    Now you're plumbing the depths. You know well the second indent in my photo is obscured by the ladder. Its the same vehicle. The wheel well with the fan indent on each side of the rear is there. Its the same vehicle adapted for a different use which you ridiculously keep on trying to say doesn't happen.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,961 ✭✭✭Brief_Lives


    So the Ukrainians have got their HARM missile interfaced with their MIG 29's via a Garmin GPS...





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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,272 ✭✭✭fash


    Rubbish: the angle of the ladder is in front of the location where the more forward indent would be, plus the indent would be far larger than the ladder side rail. Furthermore, the overall disposition of indents all along the side are incorrect.

    As regards the rear section, the 9P129 rear is distinctive (as shown in the video and just Google images and drawings of the vehicle) - you now admit yours is different but suggest your image shows something "adapted for a different use".

    Considering that various vehicles are based on the BAZ-5921 (in the case of the 9P129) or other BAZ-59xx platforms , the differences that are important. Further as regards the (laughable) idea that they "adapt these for use" - that's what they do in the factory prior to making the relevant vehicle. Aside from "cope cages" Russians don't go around changing delivery trucks to look exactly like 9P129 Tochka-U launcher vehicles while at the same time claiming not to use them.


    Edit: here also a video clip of 2 V marked 9P129s (despite the fact that some (but not all) in Russia suggest they were retired in 2019 - 3 years before "V" marking was developed: .


    Post edited by fash on


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,961 ✭✭✭Brief_Lives




  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,240 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    ##Mod Note##

    bobowen & fash

    Drop it and move on , both of you.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,359 ✭✭✭jmreire


    When they have the highest suicide and accident rate in the world during basic training and first year of service, why would their officers balk about killing them if they become incapacitated?? Google "Russian military Hazing deaths "



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Not so sure,I think the GPS is just that an off the shelf gps for finding locations ,it's been discussed for years on here how Russia was using handheld Garmin's when flying missions over Syria,

    Harm missles find their target by locking on to electronic transmissions coming from surface to air defense radars



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,780 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    It appears that the deputy head of Kherson (who's effectively the top official since the head is in a coma) has fled Kherson. An activist determined from the background in his latest videos that he's actually in Russia.

    Kirill Stremousov, who was appointed deputy head of the Russian-backed Kherson military-civilian administration, has published regular video updates to state-owned Russian news outlets and his Telegram account.

    But a Ukrainian activist, Serhii Sternenko, has claimed Stremousov is no longer in Kherson and has instead been filming his recent video updates somewhere near the Cathedral of Annunciation in Voronezh in Russia, which can be seen in the background.

    Voronezh is almost 500 miles from Kherson and about 120 miles from the border with Ukraine.



    When asked by the Guardian about his location, Stremousov said that he was currently “travelling around Russian cities, meeting different people for work”.

    He said:

    I don’t have to sit [in Kherson]. I am the deputy head of the region and have the opportunity to move around…These are working trips.

    “Kherson will remain my base,” he added, denying that he left Kherson out of safety concerns.

    Stremousov became the most senior Russian-appointed official in Kherson after the local governor, Volodymyr Saldo, was taken to hospital amid a suspected poisoning earlier in the summer.

    Stremousov’s apparent departure from Kherson comes after another Russian-appointed official in the region, Alexei Kovalev, was shot dead in his home over the weekend.

    In the past months, a number of Ukrainian nationals appointed by Russian forces in occupied territory have been killed or wounded in apparent partisan attacks.


    link



  • Registered Users Posts: 907 ✭✭✭ilkhanid


    Or googling ''Dedovshchina'' will bring you straight to it. ''Hazing'' or ''bullying'' doesn't even begin to cover the brutality. Some of the abuse perpetrated on raw recruits can only be considered torture.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,473 ✭✭✭Field east


    A Russian tourist, a Russian fleeing Russia, a Russian going to work abroad are NOT to be trusted BECAUSE of the following possibility - they may be innocent arrivals but the , for example, be recruited by the Russian embassy to spy, etc. They could also arrive as ‘sleepers. So none of the. Can be trusted’



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,359 ✭✭✭jmreire


    I've met with and worked with Russian soldiers, so have a good idea on what goes on during basic training....basically, for the first year, the new recruits are completely at the mercy of anyone with more experience, And that includes 2nd year soldiers. But the worst hazing will come from more experienced soldiers, and some of these show absolutely no mercy when it comes to "toughening them up" It got so bad at one stage ( after soldiers started coming back from Chechnya , many with untreated psychological issues) that the Mothers formed a group and protested at the Kremlin and in the major city's. Things imroved after that but not much...seems to be ongoing now again. Recruits showing up for the morning parades with blacked eyes and missing teeth, not mention broken bones, were a regular occurrence. What was worse was that the officers turned a blind eye to what was going on.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,279 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Near total radio silence at the moment but the mood music is that there is a lot of activity happening in Kherson Oblast. It might take us several days to hear anything, but I reckon this media blackout is good news and is encouraging.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,961 ✭✭✭Brief_Lives




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,961 ✭✭✭Brief_Lives




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,961 ✭✭✭Brief_Lives




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,961 ✭✭✭Brief_Lives




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,961 ✭✭✭Brief_Lives




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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,961 ✭✭✭Brief_Lives




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,961 ✭✭✭Brief_Lives




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,988 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    There could even be the perverse situation where the advance smashes through Russian defences so quickly and unexpectedly, the Ukraine troops ironically find themselves too far ahead of the front. It can and does happen where success is your own downfall, and your troops get cut off from their supply lines.

    Of course, official Russian sources have claimed the Kherson advance failed spectacularly, and the Ukranians took heavy casualties. Which presumably means the Russian forces are in trouble.

    Post edited by pixelburp on


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,780 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout



    Even if the attack exceeds expectations it's hard to imagine that the Ukrainians won't take heavy casualties. That's just the nature of attacking positions held by a large number defenders (there are estimates of >20,000 Russian troops west of the Dniepr). It's probably one of the reasons the Ukrainians have held off on this attack for so long. They've been trying to reduce the potential for losses by eliminating as much of the Russian's ammo and supply lines as possible. They can't eliminate it all with HIMARs though. At some stage they just have to go for it, come what may.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,483 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    Mod:

    Brief_Lives, please read the charter. This is a discussion forum not a news dump



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,961 ✭✭✭Brief_Lives


    ahhh, no problem., Will stop...



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Apparently a senior group of officers from the FSB were meeting in a hotel In Kherson, partisans blew up the hotel killing all of them.

    Russia is panicking now and trying to rapidly recruit new soldiers to send to Crimea , for those who have been saying for the last 8 years about Crimea is never going back to Ukraine bet you didn't predict its highly likely going to be back under Ukrainian control before Christmas

    .



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Sure, the Ukrainians will take Crimea in your head anyway. I suppose next you are going to tell us all that the Ukrainians are preparing their assault on the Russian mainland and that they will be in Moscow by early next year.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Why would they be attacking Moscow ,they are taking back their land pushing the orc's back across the kerch straight.

    No need to attack mainland russia,but they have already been hitting Belgorod in russia quite successfully



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You really show your true colours when you use that racist term to refer to Russians, can we not resort to such low insults against a race of people.

    Let's be realistic. Ukraine has zero chance of taking back Crimea anytime in the foreseeable future. From what I have seen today, they're supposed counterattack or counter-offensive. However you like to term it has failed hope you don't have your hopes up. Too much of Ukraine pulling off any type of meaningful victory in this war. I suspect that by winter when the energy price hikes really start to bite us here in the west, then western leaders will push hard for a settlement and one will be reached.



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