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Our most important passenger and freight ports

2

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,802 ✭✭✭Apogee


    Two bits of port-related news items. Ringaskiddy container terminal begins operations today:

    Plan to make Rosslare a hub to facilitate offshore wind:




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,802 ✭✭✭Apogee




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,802 ✭✭✭Apogee




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,042 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Tender issued for enabling works at Marino Point;

    This is an important project because it is a JV between Port of Cork and Goulding Chemicals who want to relocate its existing fertiliser facility from Cork’s south docklands, allowing it to be redeveloped. Marino Point has a deep water berth and can connect to the rail network so is a good opportunity to grow rail freight.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,042 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Tender for Rosslare Europort Terminal 7 and Enabling Works has been issued;

    Estimated total value

    Value excluding VAT: 200000000.00 EUR



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,042 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Rosslare Europort now tendering for consultants for the Preliminary Design and Planning and Statutory Process phases for their Offshore Wind Port Facilities Project;



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    This post aged exceptionally badly, there's already 42km of new rail and sleepers arriving in Foynes today for the job.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,144 ✭✭✭✭end of the road



    it did thankfully but to be fair his cinicism was understandable.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Maybe this will boost the chances of a major redevelopment of Galway Port

    Doubt it though, but maybe



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,850 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Is there a need for Galway to be developed with Foynes not that far away?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Thats the thing, I don't see the need for it.

    Foynes have a huge masterplan for a load of development related to offshore wind & hydrogen production etc etc

    The suitability of Galway for anything similar is marginal at best IMHO, unless there's a bonkers amount of reclamation and they keep reigning in those plans.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,042 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    How much actually port activity happens at Galway, apart from small craft and a bit of fishing? To get there, most ships would have to go out of their way. It seems more like an industrial area rather than an operating port. Can't see how that port is worth much to the city, I'd say those lands would be of far greater value as just about anything else.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,850 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    When you look at Foynes it will have a rail link and a motorway link along with the fact thats a natural deepwater port.

    It seams mad galway will try and develop this they will never have a good road link and rail could probably be done but it would cost alot.

    I just dont see where they would have an advantage over the likes of foynes with its motorway connections up the center of connacht

    Maybe i am missing a key elememnt here i just dont see the advantages here



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,741 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    CSO data on arrivals and gross tonnage of vessels




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,741 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Galway port

    oil imports

    scrap metal exports

    ferries to Aran islands

    Naval service visits

    Marine institute visits

    Anything else?



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,864 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Foynes not even mentioned.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,193 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    Shannon Foynes. Just after Rosslare and just before Sligo.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    wind turbine imports have been their bread and butter there for a while now



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,864 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell




  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Bizarre.

    We have Dublin, Cork, Shannon/Foynes and Rosslare carrying significant tonnage. We have the Foynes rail link, M21 Foynes-Limerick motorway, M28 Cork-Ringaskiddy motorway, M11/N25 Oilgate-Rosslare motorway all needing funding to access those four ports. We hardly need another port to divert money to, especially one in the centre of a city with no trunk road acces.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,551 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Wicklow being that much busier than Sligo seems so strange as Sligo always looked like a substantial port.

    Although some of that might have been down to that impounded ship tied up for years!



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,850 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    I taught i read somewhere that sligo may have to close as a comerical port because it has silted up some much and it would cost to much to resolve

    Edit: yip below for last april. Not looking good for sligo port

    https://m.independent.ie/regionals/sligochampion/news/sligo-harbour-is-full-of-silt-but-dredging-it-is-not-viable-says-new-report-41545200.html



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,576 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    So foynes , galway ,Sligo,killybegs from the Shannon up , is there much docking in Derry / Lough foyle , and is it more difficult post Brexit ,

    But if galway and Sligo were out of the mix there wouldn't be much port facilities on the the west ,

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,850 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    With the Motorway Network from Foynes do you need much more?

    Killybegs is a good size port and Derry has a port as well



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Having ports all over the shop is unnecessary on a small, low population island like Ireland. There will always be small ports on the west coast and in different areas but they don’t need massive upgrades or investment.

    Improving the roads to the North West would be much better than upgrading small ports. The N4 Mullingar to Longford would be a great place to start.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,115 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Derry port has annual tonnage just shy of 2m.


    Little need for shipping to Sligo, theres Killybegs the big fishing port in NW, and Derry for freight.

    For Galway, Shannon-Foynes is just as close for ships and has far better connectivity than Galway port.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,848 ✭✭✭Economics101


    Surely port development should focus on the East and South coasts, nearer to major foreign markets and international shipping lanes, as well as being closer to major Irish population centres. Waterford/Belview has huge potential, and already good ship-to-road and rail facilities.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 326 ✭✭MyLove4Satan


    Silted up for years and as a result smaller and smaller ships. Eventually there will be none as the problem is serious.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,850 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    I havent seen the detailed reports yet but its reported the LDA have identified Galway harbour for major housing projects. Will this conflict with galway harbours plannned expansion or is it a different plot of land alltogether?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I know the port planned for a load of apartment buildings on the next bit of reclamation but those plans are unlikely to proceed, there just isn't the demand for the port infrastructure. Besides, it would be ages before any reclaimed land would be ready for building on



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,042 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Several of the parcels of land identified by the LDA are in active use and in many cases the user would consider that to remain the case for a long time. TheLDA list is of possible housing sites, it remains to be seen how many actually get used for housing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,042 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Now tendering for Resident Engineering Services for this project which suggests it should be happening soon;

    The documents can be downloaded without logging in, seems to be a large number of buildings involved

    The Rosslare Europort T7 and Enabling Works project is a substantial Brexit infrastructure project, located in Rosslare Harbour, which includes the provision of approximately 28 new buildings/structures, new roads, fencing, hard and soft landscaping works, along with temporary accommodation.

    One thing I never see mentioned in relation to developments at Rosslare is rail freight facilities, are these included in the Masterplan at all? The port is owned by Iarnród Eireann, I'm sure they and the port management know whats best for the future of the port and the potential for rail freight but others seems to have decided that rail freight is the future.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,551 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    It remains a primarily ro-ro port, there is exceptionally limited scope for rail freight there. Container and bulk ports on the other hand do have opportunities, hence the Foynes relay



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,042 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    That's my point, is the intentiont of any of these major projects to allow it to handle rail freight as apparently the All Island Rail Review suggests reopening the South Wexford line for rail freight to Rosslare.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 438 ✭✭andrewfaulk


    Does handle containers thought, the twice weekly Finnlines service from Zeebrugge carries containers.. However these are mostly for local area, and the volumes are too low for rail freight at the moment(about 30-40 containers per vessel)..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,115 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    In fairness the low volumes for freight are likely as a result of an inability to transport it across the country by rail. A proper rail link to the port for freight would see some level of induced demand



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,551 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    No, basically. Irish Rails interest in the port is making money, investing for rail freight won't meet that goal as easily as more roro



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,986 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    The reality is we use to have far more rail freight infrastructure, but industry decided road freight was faster and cheaper. And that was before the motorway network!

    Think about it, either way you need a truck to bring the freight to the rail head, where it will sit for a few days until enough freight builds up to justify the train to the port. Or you can just skip all that and have the truck drive the extra hour or two to the port directly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,115 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    As fuel slowly gets more and more expensive and it gets harder and harder to get the truck drivers in the first place(!), rail becomes more and more attractive.

    It might take decades but the price differential is only going one way and ultimately rail will win out for the efficiency of resource use, and lower labour costs



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,864 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    The advantage of rail is that driverless trains is an easier target than driverless trucks or cars.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,848 ✭✭✭Economics101


    The other potential advantage of rail is that it is far easier to electrify fully than almost any other mode of transport. All the hybrid stuff and hydrogen powererd stuff have immense technical and operational drawbascks compared with putting electricity directly into overhead wires. We hear a lot about the cost of electrification but almost nothing about the various operational benefits. Its all proven technology.

    One tip: get your advice from the Continent, rather than the UK, which has messed it up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,576 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Honestly if I wanted to get agreated freight from one Irish city to another or to several other Irish cirties and road wasn't an option ( for what ever reason ), I'd probably be doing it by ship , the ports already exist... They're already sorted for hgv access to bring everything in and out ..

    But nothing is going to beat trucks in an Irish situation ,

    every main population centre is less than 4 hours from Dublin , loading and unloading are probably the most time consuming part of transport, so it makes sense to drive door to door, at a time that suits customer and seller ..

    I could foresee electric driverless trucks on the motorway powered like electric trains , possibly even road trains

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,986 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Yep EV and hydrogen trucks are already starting to hit the roads. We will have them in Ireland long before the Irish rail network will be electrified. Hell we are even struggling to get the Dublin commuter lines electrified, with IR buying battery trains. It will be decades if ever before most of our rail network is electrified. Though perhaps hydrogen powered rail engines are a possibility and perhaps more likely.

    BTW the short distances in Ireland are particularly well suited to EV trucks. The rule of thumb is up to 300 miles is particularly suited to EV trucks, much cheaper then Diesel at up to those distances. Over it you need to look at hydrogen.

    BTW I’m not really against rail freight, I just think folks need to be realistic about it all. It makes up less than 1% of freight in Ireland and Ireland just isn’t well suited to it. Even with new rail freight hubs, it will be extremely unlikely to ever break double digits.

    I do think the idea of trying to force rail freight into Dublin port is particularly idiotic. So let’s get this straight, Ryan wants us to use very old and extremely polluting old Diesel train engines to pull large freight trains right through the center of Dublin City, right next to people’s homes and disturb the commuter rail network!

    How exactly is this “environmental” ?

    We have lots of ports all around the country, surely it makes far more sense to use the likes of Foynes, etc. for the rail freight then trying to force it through our capital city!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 438 ✭✭andrewfaulk


    Some amount of arm chair experts on here who no little of what they are talking about..

    JIT, irrelevant to 95% of freight by volume

    Time, not that important if planned correctly, what’s a few hours when a container takes 35+ days to arrive from China or 15+ days to arrive from the US

    cargo waiting days for trains, doesn’t happen, trains are daily and co-ordinated with shipping movements on the most important routes

    transshipment as an issue, that’s why we have containers.. 20-25% of Dublin ports unitised throughput is containerised, so an addressable market exists..

    the fact is that the model already exists for successful rail freight in this country, the reason there isn’t more of it is down to decades of under investment in the rail network, a lack of political will and overall short sightedness.. the green agenda and EU funding seems to be finally making a change to this.. Rail is also much easier to convert to electric or hydrogen power(most of the tech already exists, passenger trains in service already) as it is less weight critical than road transport(Nikola, need I say more).. It also has a much lower rolling resistance than road, as the interaction is steel on steel instead of rubber on tarmac

    Post edited by andrewfaulk on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,848 ✭✭✭Economics101


    Even using Diesel Locos, hauling a train full of containers is less polluting than 20 or so large trucks. The main ports fro containers from ship to rail will be Waterford and Dublin for the forseeable future. (Foynes is in the wrong place - a much longer sea journey from European ports).

    If long-distance freight from Southern and Central Europe is more likely to go by container, then using rail at the Irish end will make nore sense. I realise that the potential for rail on purely domestic runs is low.

    But I can't quite fathom why Ireland is so exceptional in not going for serious rail electrification, and why there is such an obsession with at times unproven hybrid vehicles.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,986 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    “Even using Diesel Locos, hauling a train full of containers is less polluting than 20 or so large trucks.”

    Yes, true, but completely misses the point. Rail freight isn’t economically competitive with road freight, the only way to make it competitive and attract users is via heavy government subsidy. So the question is, is this money better spent on this or instead spent on other environmental subsidies like insulating houses or building more wind farms?

    Also the above won’t be true once EV and hydrogen trucks start hitting the roads.

    “But I can't quite fathom why Ireland is so exceptional in not going for serious rail electrification, and why there is such an obsession with at times unproven hybrid vehicles.”

    That is pretty simple, it costs an awful lot of money, specially when bridges and tunnels need to be modified for it. Generally speaking our rail lines aren’t busy enough to justify the cost. Some day we might get to high enough levels to justify the Cork and Belfast lines, but all the rest won’t be electrified in any of our lifetimes.

    After all, people forget that there are lots of non electrified lines all over Europe, they are the less busy lines, more similar to most of ours.

    Technology might help with some of this. Hydrogen trains may eliminate the need for electrification at all. Or batteries on a train might allow us to partly electrify where a train can run for a few km off the overhead electric lines, thus avoiding the need to change bridges and tunnels and thus bringing down the cost of electrification.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 438 ✭✭andrewfaulk


    Still trotting out the same old subsidy story after 15 odd years.. Rail freight doesn’t get subsidies in this country, it’s operated on a commercial basis and IEs rail freight department makes a postitive contribution to the groups finances even after paying outsized track access charges.. If anything freight is subsiding passenger rail.. It also ignores the fact that road does not cover its costs, as central exchequer funding is used to build road infrastructure and subsidise PPP road schemes that are under performing..

    when are we going to acutually see these hydrogen or battery powered trucks(without massive payload penalties) you keep talking about, they seem to be always 5 years away.. Self driving trucks is even more of a pipe dream, if the tech doesn’t work on wide streets and clear blue skies in Californian, what hope does it have in driving rain or snow on the N5,N26 or most other national roads in the country



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