Our most important passenger and freight ports

bk

15 years later and rail freight still represents just 1% of all freight moved in Ireland, it is a complete failure. That is the reality.

And you basically want the government to invest heavily in rail freight infrastructure to make it more attractive, that would be a subsidy.

And I have no fundamental problem with such government investments, but my question is, where is the cost benefit analysis?

How much government investment will be needed for rail freight to break even 10% of all freight? How much greenhouse emissions would that actually save? Could we gain the same or greater amount of greenhouse emissions by investing the same amount of money in another wind farm or housing insulation?

This is my problem with this whole problem with this topic. A lot of platitudes of wouldn’t be nice if we moved more by freight be rail and wouldn’t it be better for the environment, but then no numbers on how much it will cost to achieve and no numbers on how much greenhouse emissions it will save.

Economics101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120511976#Comment_120511976

You need to look at a few fundamental factors behind the problems of rail freight. First, track access charges, which are apparently among the highest in Europe. Second, motorways are subject to minimal tolls, in sharp contrast to many European countries. Third, trucks pay a much reduced level of road tax now, compared with a few years ago (thanks in part to lobbying by Verona Murphy TD, on behalf of the trucking industry).

The economics of long distance rail versus road is largely a function of the charges, taxes and subsidies levied by Government, which in Ireland seem to be very road-friendly.

When I look at the enormous costs the Government wants people to pay for other forms of carbon emissions reduction, the contrast with the attitude to rail electrification is immense. Also you ignore the huge operational benefits frok operating electric trains compared with hybrids or even hydrogen-based trains.

You might like to look at the following: https://www.riagb.org.uk/RIA/Newsroom/Publications%20Folder/Why_Rail_Electrification_Report.aspx

bk

“You need to look at a few fundamental factors behind the problems of rail freight.”

I mean the fundamental factor is very simple. Small island, short distances.

A company has to pay a trucker to move the goods to/from the warehouse to the railhead anyway, the cost of getting them to drive an extra hour or two to the nearest port is small.

Sure, the government could put massive tolls on the roads to push freight from trucks to rail. Great you have now made thousands of truckers unemployed and bankrupt thousands of small Irish family owned business. I’m sure that will be politically popular!

Oh and now the government has to invest heavily in rail freight infrastructure so it can handle the sudden demand. And now lots more freight trains heading through Dublins already overcrowded rail network, causing a much poor commuter service, brilliant!

And why do all this? What is the advantage versus the current setup?

The only argument I can see is, the environmental argument. But that will change quickly with electric trucks, etc. starting to arrive.

The first EV articulated truck from Volvo arrived at Irish Commercials just a few days ago. Dixon International are getting them.

We’ve all seen how quickly EV vans have arrived for the likes of Amazon/DPD/An Post, trucking will be the next area to change like this. And it will happen much faster then you could develop rail freight.

Tabnabs

Any chance the mods can create a rail freight thread, because this Ports one has been very effectively derailed...

Markcheese

I always thought port to port would be the ideal for Irish rail freight - well at least for containerized freight..

It would have been possible to unloada ship at cork container port directly onto a train , and then either transfer directly to another port/ rail yard - or to the north esk freight yard for sorting ,

Most of that infrastructure is long gone now ..

andrewfaulk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120512888#Comment_120512888

We have enough distance on this island for rail to have a role, hence the Ballina/Westport-Dublin/Waterford trains that currently operate.. And also, FYI both of those routes take substantially longer than an hour or two in a truck.. Yes they are small volume relative to road movements but they are living proof that rail freight can work in this country. The IWT liner in operation since 2009 has operated nearly 3600 round trips journeys which is over 60,000 containerised loads.. This was done with minimal investment from Irish rail, it uses 45 year old wagons hauled by 50 year old locos.. Now imagine what would be possible if IE could actually invest in it's freight business, bearing in mind that the last freight rolling stock was built in 2002.. I'm not saying multi-millions for new terminals in every town, targeted investment in the following would product much better results:

1) New air-braked wagons allowing longer trains

2) Longer passing loops to facilitate the trains(the majority of which were truncated/removed during CTC work in the early 2000s when IE had decided that freight was no more and railcars were king)

3) Training of more drivers on Locomotive hauling freight stock

Your battery truck sounds nice and all, and Dixons do like their toys(fairly sure they bought LNG also), but that truck is no use to me hauling 30 tonne loads, its fine for light cargo like parcels or post but the payload penalty makes it non-viable for a lot of business particularly any bulk traffic

bk

But that is the point, relatively speaking, we don't have much bulk traffic in Ireland. Most of our industries are light, we have very little heavy industry in Ireland, not much mining, some forestry.

The majority of freight carried on Irish roads will be easily carried by EV trucks like the above Volvo's. We will be able to decarbonise the majority of freight in Ireland with such trucks. The short distances in Ireland are perfectly suited to such trucks.

This is what I mean that the argument that we need rail freight to decarbonise is bogus. Rail freight represents less then 1% of freight in Ireland. If we want to decarbonise, we have to focus on de-carbonising the 99% and that can be done without rail freight.

Don't get me wrong, I've no problem with increasing rail freight in general. If it doubles from 1% to 2% of all freight, great, but lets be honest, it will make feck all difference to our emissions.

My concern though is the idea of trying to force more freight movements through the already congested Dublin rail network and the knock on effect it can have on DART and commuter services and potentially driving commuters back into their cars, more then negating any emissions benefit.

Sam Russell

There is pressure to make PT 24 hour based, which will affect the availability of rail capacity for freight.

Rosslare development signed off by cabinet

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/94a42-minister-donohoe-welcomes-government-agreement-to-major-investment-in-rosslare-port/

The proposed Terminal 7 development at Rosslare, includes the redevelopment of the existing site and the demolition of a number of existing buildings to facilitate the construction of a new border control post (BCP) consisting of a number of new buildings and associated external site infrastructure.

The Terminal 7 facility will facilitate the processing and exit routes from the passenger and freight ferries that use Rosslare Europort.

More development on the way for Rosslare, this time for offshore wind

https://www.independent.ie/regionals/wexford/wexford-district/management-say-rosslare-europort-will-be-ready-in-time-to-capitalise-on-construction-of-offshore-wind-farms/a1480969929.html

Geuze

Rosslare harbour port seems to me sort of a tight site, access-wise.

Is there space to expand to deal with off-shore wind?

I presume there must be.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120618790#Comment_120618790

I'd say so, but until plans or proposals are released its hard to say how they'll do it

In the meantime, contracts have been signed for Terminal 7 in Rosslare

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/c65d3-ministers-donohoe-and-odonovan-welcome-signing-of-contract-for-major-investment-in-rosslare-port/

andrewfaulk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120618790#Comment_120618790

Since there is no domestic wind turbine production, it's a moot point.. The industry model is to import parts by sea(most suitable mode of transport), assemble them onshore and then ship completed components out again by sea..

The foreshore license mentioned in the article is to add quay walls/space of vessels serving the wind industry I would imagine..

Rosslare getting 2.5 million of EU funding to support Offshore Renewable Energy (ORE) project’s full design and planning application processes

https://www.independent.ie/regionals/wexford/news/rosslare-euroports-offshore-renewable-energy-project-gets-25m-funding-boost-from-european-union/a1580804881.html

ArcadiaJunction

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120611919#Comment_120611919

countless millions of seabird slaughtered and what are these things doing to whales and orcas nervous systems. 'support' means delivering the millions of gallons of diesel they need to start turning. We should be building nuclear power stations and stop with these upper middle-class crucifixes Green Party voters pray to.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120783690#Comment_120783690

nuclear power stations are unviable, not happening in ireland due to the inability to pass a BCR.

we don't have whales in ireland to my knowledge and sea birds will be killed a lot more by smoke then turbines.

anyway, it's out of scope for this thread but just giving you the low down on the reality.

you can thank me later, i am always happy to help where and when i can.

millb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120626783#Comment_120626783

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120626783#Comment_120626783

Came in to Rosslare Hbr yesterday no room for a Stena Ferry which waited at sea. Place can only take 3 ships at a time. God forbid an emergency and for sure it is no good for any real offshore wind work. Nice new roads and pedestrian crossings but nothing marine wise.

Is this a record for a planning application? 10 years

https://connachttribune.ie/ten-years-on-no-progress-on-plan-to-extend-port/

roadmaster

There seams to be alot of wishfull thinking and propaganda reports on Bremore Port over the last few months. In the Article below they are saying they could start by 2028 but what the leave out is the lack of planning permission and a little fact they dont own the state land that they need to use.

https://www.meathchronicle.ie/2023/12/22/deep-water-port-could-create-thousands-of-jobs-in-the-north-east/

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121542758#Comment_121542758

Its another Jonny Ronan venture, so it will not happen

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121543097#Comment_121543097

Its a mad waste of.money anyway with the DPC plans and all our other ports anyway. Ronan is mad to build apartments in the port

Pete_Cavan

Rosslare Europort - Terminal 7 and Enabling Works - Project Progress Newsletter - Issue 02 - Dec 2023;

https://www.gov.ie/pdf/?file=https://assets.gov.ie/278955/dc0cddaf-0061-4491-bfc1-208dfad3d3b4.pdf#page=null

Taken from here;

https://www.gov.ie/en/organisation-information/5618d-rosslare-europort-terminal-7-and-enabling-works/

Good progress looks to have been made so far, great to see.

munchkin_utd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121601776#Comment_121601776

for car drivers/ foot or rail passengers the only relevant changes seem to be a small rejig of the car check-in but beyond that the passenger terminal and rail station remain untouched.

They are currently ripping up the remnants of the old rail platforms which were adjoined to the passenger terminal.

p_haugh

Wasnt the bus bay area in the europort recently torn up? Remember seeing a picture of the coaches parked in a temporary location.

andrewfaulk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121543097#Comment_121543097

It is unlikely to happen alright, the lack of deep water or a river to provide scour being a major stumbling block.. The environmental damage to dredge the depth needed at Bremore would be colossal..

A better idea would be to move the Oil business currently handled in Dublin Port to Bremore.. An offshore( or floating) dolphin capable of handling tankers in the deep water and connected to land by a pipeline with onshore tank storage.. All future proofed for use with hydrogen.. It would free up the considerable space in Dublin port occupied by tank farms for conversion into more Lo/lo handling areas which would be easily rail served connecting to depots around the country

ArcadiaJunction

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120504880#Comment_120504880

and then there was this mystery man named Brendan Ogle who seems to always suddenly materialize as the ultimate Enabling Works when the establishment have agendas in mind...

ArcadiaJunction

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119966876#Comment_119966876

People in Galway want millions of trucks constantly destroying the streets is about the only argument they can make for Galway Port development... well, until the West on Track 100 track railfreight marshalling yard is built for the City of the Sacred Heart.

Ronald Binge Redux

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121733677#Comment_121733677

Good God man, what obscure and musty grave did you excavate that extremely dead duck of the City of the sacred heart from? Haven't heard that peculiar Irish-American mirage mentioned since 2008 or so...

loco_scolo

Not sure if there's a specific Foynes thread so posting here.

Great video from Drone Hawk showing the mammoth pace of works on reopening Foynes to Limerick freight line. Let's hope some stations and passenger service follow along just as quick.

https://youtu.be/T8Apw__YN-Q?si=1-MW9-K480EDnRJ8

p_haugh

Theres one over on the "Train & Rail Systems" sub-forum within "Commuting & Transport", for future reference!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2057382626/foynes-line

Pete_Cavan

Rosslare Europort have started the tender process for for the design and construction of a proposed Offshore Renewable Energy Hub;

https://www.etenders.gov.ie/epps/cft/prepareViewCfTWS.do?resourceId=3574981

Iarnród Eireann (IÉ) are seeking expressions of interest from suitably qualified applicants to participate in a tender competition for the design and construction of a proposed Offshore Renewable Energy (ORE) Hub at Rosslare Europort. Rosslare Europort is proposing the construction of port facilities which will be capable of facilitating fixed bottom wind farm projects in the Irish and Celtic Seas. Some of the key features of the proposed development are as follows: • Approximately 20 hectares of land reclamation from the sea at the westerly side of the existing Rosslare Europort; • Heavy lift berth (250m-330m in length) for accommodating ORE installation vessels; • Second berth (~240m long) for the delivery of foundation and wind turbine components; • Capital dredging works to the main berth pockets and approach channel; • Small boat harbour for local fishing vessels, Crew Transfer Vessels (CTV’s) and associated quayside facilities.

REP is really pushing ahead with development for the future between this and the Terminal 7 works currently happening, very impressive. I'm sure John Paul, who are undertaking the current works, will be going hard for the ORE Hub job too.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121601776#Comment_121601776

A new Newsletter dated August 24 is available on the link I posted previously.

Good progress seems to have been made so far, works are also visible on Google Maps.