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Transport Aircraft

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,205 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    Lovely piece of kit. Could do with one or two more of them in my opinion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,479 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    If only the rest of us had thought of that.....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,205 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    Well there we are then. Sure the wind of the word was enough for the scholar !



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,675 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,268 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Not to worry they have 3 more.

    If only there was some sort of aircraft that could be bought that could get there in less than 5 stops or could fly non stop!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,268 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    The poor PC12 fleet will be run to the ground shortly the way they used them



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,062 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Not if they're sitting on the tarmac in Africa 😎

    What's the range of the new casa's ?

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭scotchy


    💙 💛 💙 💛 💙 💛



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,794 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Going back to collect gear…..What equipment needed to be repatriated I wonder.

    From my rough maths…

    the aircraft can carry approximately 2,700 lbs of fuel. A 10 leg return trip if what I’m interpreting is correct ?

    so roughly 27,000 lbs of fuel say… you are paying for fuel plus it’s uplift each time.

    would it not be cheaper and safer to buy the gear again ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,268 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    I would imagine weapons and Amo falling to the wrong hands is the main issue if they left them behind



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,381 ✭✭✭sparky42


    As mentioned its their weapons, ammo, comms gear and such, remember last time we had this situation we left the equipment with a "friendly" nation to hold onto/whatever with them, guess this time that was deemed the wrong approach but someone forgot to ensure clearances for the return leg with weapons onboard.

    In terms of usage, between the flights for Covid and everything else we are certainly putting hours on the fleet, which again makes you wonder why the fifth one was turned down? And of course highlights the gap of anything with "strategic" reach.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,479 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Sending a single-engined, unstrengthened, light transport into a conflict zone of deteriorating and uncertain security, borders on an act of criminal negligence, in my view.

    A) the lack of a tactical airlifter is again highlighted and B) given that, the Government should have paid for a friendly Government to evacuate our men and equipment safely.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,268 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Ah sparky do you not remember they had no where to park the 5th PC12!!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 437 ✭✭Grassy Knoll


    while the PC 12 had some clear limitations in terms of this particular mission, I think it clearly proves a) the need for an aircraft with more suitable legs, b) the capabilities of the Aer Corps to plan and execute such a task and c) the value already being derived from the PC12 craft.

    The laying up of the plane is more a function of diplomatic/ bureaucratic wrangling, but should not take from what is a pointer of the more punchy roles Aer Corps should be undertaking … I would be more than surprised if more suitable aircraft is not acquired in due course.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,205 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    So we had to leave this beautiful piece of kit in the capable hands of the Ugandan Air Force!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,381 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Her aircrew and the extras they took with them were with the plane, I doubt they just left random people mess with it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,479 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    "In due course"

    This 'due course' has been identified for decades, ever since the Government began committing the DF to ever more dangerous peace enforcement and training missions in conflict zones, where being dropped off and picked up by an Aer Lingus 757 every six months, simply does not cover the logistical and military needs of such missions, specifically unforeseen emergency departures from unsecured locations and / or with live fire in the area.

    The utter failure by the civil and military authorities to address this glaring need, amounts to negligence in my opinion.

    There should be a tactical military transport on-stand in Baldonnell, today, and every day there is not one, is one more indictment.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,268 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    At this stage they may strip and hold on to the 235s when the 295s arrive for transport duties untill a suitable aircraft can be bought



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,479 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    That wouldn't really solve the problem, even on an interim basis.

    Both examples are very old, not strengthened and protected for tactical operations and have only 75% the range of a modern twin lifter like the C-27J or 60% the range of the C295 successor.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,381 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Would there be space to park them though? I mean that's seems to be a critical issue.

    Without the sarcasm though, given the issues with the service rates that they have had over the last few years in the MPA role, how much money would need to go into them now to get them up to a rate that would support any on call airlift? Given the lead time on any new transports or even just getting them second hand how long might they hang around in such a case and would there be a risk that certain parties would use them as an excuse not to buy something proper for the job?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,479 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Too much money, for too little utility.

    In fact, if I were the Air Corps seniors, I wouldn't give the DoD monkeys the satisfaction of suggesting it as a stop gap, they'd surely seize on it and consider it solved.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 437 ✭✭Grassy Knoll


    Put it this way, Coveney is likely to be moving on at year end, if for no other reason than ‘legacy’ I’d be surprised if there wasn’t an announcement. The business case so to speak is irrefutable at this point. Also we know discussions have been ongoing behind the scenes with aircraft agents so there is tyre kicking of some form going on in the second hand market. Finally an ac CoS is likely to count for something, particularly in the year 100 etc ?? … I could be very wrong but let’s see what the autumn brings …



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,268 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Are the pair of former Jordian 295s still sitting in seville?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,479 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    I agree with all of that. The Navy secured more new hulls under Vice Admiral Mellett than they had in the previous 40 odd years. Lets see if Sean Clancy is just as influential.

    Also, the vital operations of the Air Corps have been highlighted in the last 30 months like never before.

    Budget 2023 is presented in about 4 weeks time, I guess we'll just have to be optimistic.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,381 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Not sure you can compare the situations, I mean the P60 class procurement started well before he was CoS from memory and P64 had mixed reasons for procurement. While as you say the AC limitations have been exposed, is it enough to nudge the politicians? Given some of the mixed comments in some of the reporting so far I’m going to wait and not get any hopes up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 437 ✭✭Grassy Knoll


    Money has been found for additional or unprogrammed purchases of equipment as the need has arisen in the last few years, so conceivably this could be met in 2022.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,479 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    I imagine the first thing Sean Clancy wants out of the Commission report, is the position of Chief of Defence.

    Something that a) I wouldn't hold against him in the slightest and b) the Government should not kick down the road as has been indicated.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,479 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    They'd be crazy to. By the time CHOD is enacted under legislation, Clancy will likely be finished his term and Adrian Ó Murchú and Rossa Mulcahy will be fighting it out for the gig.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,268 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Interesting day out for the air corps piliots

    https://www.afgsc.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/3139404/irish-air-corps-visits-20th-air-force/



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,381 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Interesting bit of news, though not what you’d expect to see.



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