Covid 19 Part XXXV-956,720 ROI (5,952 deaths) 452,946 NI (3,002 deaths) (08/01) Read OP

It is not about deaths from covid only. It’s about all deaths that are in excess of the average.

"If vaccinations..."

Well NZ vaccination rollouts including boosters all happened in 2021.

In 2020 and 2021, the rate of deaths among people over-90-years-old, the population among the most at risk from COVID-19, remained the same or even lower than expected compared with most other countries.

“Deaths in 2021 were in line with the expected trend of increasing deaths, while deaths in 2020 were lower as there were far fewer winter deaths than other years.”

For the countries you have named with 20% or higher you can find one lower than that such as Germany or France. The % difference does not seem explicable by differences in vaccination rates.

There were deaths from Omicron which need to be factored into the above percentages.

The first thing to be aware of with excess mortality is the above graph (copied from below article). Excess mortality just looks at previous years, it doesn't take into account how the age profile of the country has shifted in that period. A small increase in the number of older people has a greater than expected impact on deaths.

Then, if you look at who died from covid. 10% - 20% of deaths were in under 65s. In Ireland it was closer to 10%, in the US closer to 20%.

So you had people dying unexpectedly who could have been expected to survive a typical winter season.

Then you had vulnerable people taking extreme precautions to avoid infectious diseases. In trying to suppress covid flu etc was crushed. So people who may likely have died in a typical winter season - did not. Are they in the numbers passing away now? That's my guess.

Could there also be some aspect of people passing away with complaints left untreated who either didn't attend scans or had them cancelled during the pandemic. Possibly, although more data would be needed to see if the causes of death recorded have shifted in pattern.

In countries hard hit by covid, could older people have been weakened even if they survived the first wave. Possibly.

Without Omicron you mean ...

For the age profile of a population to change in any meaningful way a long time has to pass i.e. a decade. For example a median age of NZ changed from 35.9 in 2006 to 37.4 in 2018. The article you mentioned discuses period to the end of 2021. It is only this year that NZ are struggling. Also, their ‘covid’ deaths are in double figures, which while surprising considering a fully vaccinated country and much less severe omicron variant, contributes more substantially to the overall number of excess deaths and possibly makes it look less unusual. In case of Israel, their ‘covid’ deaths are on par with average across other countries, which makes high numbers of excess deaths even more difficult to understand.

In my opinion there is a significant surge, an uptake in certain medical conditions such as heart attacks, blood cloths to the lungs, cancer etc. and possibly other much more uncommon diseases. Since of 2021 these would have increased by 300-500% vs an average for the previous 5 years and affect even younger part of population i.e. 18-49 years of age.

I don’t know what has caused this but we better pay attention to it, as sure as hell these deaths will not get as good traction with the media as ‘covid’ deaths did.

France and Germany are no different. They also have experienced ‘unexplained’ excess deaths (to a lesser degree perhaps) as the ‘covid’ deaths as percentage of all-cause deaths were in single low digits at the time. What is different is the level of ‘unexplained’ deaths and their timing. Another example is Netherlands - virtually no ‘covid’ deaths, yet excess deaths between 12-23% for 10 subsequent weeks this year.

It is a matter of an expression. Let’s not get bogged down on how the message is deliver and concentrate on its content. To put this into a context when Sweden were registering similar levels of excess deaths due to covid back in 2020 the media did not hold back on how irresponsible their strategy was and that they could have done much more to protect their citizens. Sweden’s neighbouring countries were given as an example of how it should be done. Now Israel is recording excess deaths of a similar magnitude relative to the mean, and those are vastly not due to covid.

Saw the same thing. And some people still believe the press don't have an agenda. There's informing, and then there's dragging the living sh*te out of it!

What kind of funny business was your mother planning on doing at that 50th!

Here are covid stats from Co Cork for anyone who’s interested.

Out of a population of 581,231 (2022) 512 people died over a two year period.

under 35 - 0

35-44 - 1

over 65 - 94% of all deaths

over 85 - 45% of all deaths.

As you can see almost one in two deaths were those over the age of life expectancy.

The risk it posed to all was because of what it could do to the hospitals and their ability to treat people - of all ages. It was a numbers game of severity and infectiousness.

And if you look at the CSO stats for the age profiles of the people it sent to ICU and hospital, and the people who pulled through with treatment - they are much younger than the profile of those who died.

That's why country after country reacted as they did when they saw hospitals filling up. It wasn't nursing home deaths that caused England to change tack and lockdown - it was hospital capacity.

Strawman argument. Waves come and go - that doesn't mean the wave would have been the same without a reaction.

I was challenging a claim you made. The onus is on you to prove your claim.

If restrictions were warranted at some point, then you implicitly agree with what I said:

Waves come and go - that doesn't mean the wave would have been the same without a reaction.

The poster isn't talking about 2022 only though.

This is what you wrote:

The only time restrictions were ever warranted was early 2020 and possibly for a few weeks in winter 2020/early 2021.

And you also wrote:

There's also no real hard evidence that they even achieved much during waves.

Come back to us when you can reconcile your own posts and "the data".