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BusConnects Dublin - Big changes to Bus Network

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,085 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy


    Your right the L11 is following the same route as the 111 as far as Rochestown Avenue. Map dosen't make that very clear unfortunately apart from that it appears to be the same routing as the current 45a.

    Yeah don't think the Bray locals will take up too many resources on the new network not much more than at present no real massive expansion there. Although there will be an expansion to include the L3 Greystones town service and the L14 Bray town service. I'd imagine the L3 will be operated by the same operator as the L1/L2.

    Wouldn't surprise if the L1/L2/L3 which are replacing the 84/184 are operated by Dublin Bus with the L14/L15 operated by Go-Ahead.



  • Registered Users Posts: 917 ✭✭✭Burt Renaults


    Unless GAI somehow acquires a depot/sub-depot closer to Bray, those routes should absolutely be operated by Dublin Bus. Alternatively, it could be a good idea to have one operated by DB and the other by GAI, for the sole purpose of comparing both operations over a long period of time on near-identical routes.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,588 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    I would tend to agree - some form of compromise is needed, with common sense being applied to this.

    Far better to integrate similar routes with one operator.

    Same applies in north Dublin where the 33a should have remained with Dublin Bus as short workings on the 33 boards.

    lnstead we end up with utterly inefficient operations and no integration.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,588 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    To be clear on this I expect that the phasing will see the following routes finishing and their replacements starting in the south Dublin / northeast Wicklow area at these stages:

    2023 - E Spine (provisionally June):

    46a/e, 63/a, 84/a/x, 145, 155, 184 and 185

    2024 - B Spine (provisionally August):

    7/a/b/d, 45a/b, 59, 111

    2024 - Ranelagh Radials (provisionally December):

    11 (southern half), 44/b, 47, 114, 116, 118 and 161



  • Registered Users Posts: 248 ✭✭DaBluBoi


    Isnt the 161 meant to be replaced by the L35 when the Southern Orbitals roll around?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,085 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy


    Won't really make much difference as it will be the exact same routing just with a different number



  • Registered Users Posts: 325 ✭✭TranslatorPS


    I remain of the opinion that L1/L2/L3 will most likely go to DB, but more so on the basis of the most senior of all senior men on the 84 rather than any practicality.

    Admittedly though it has been my balancing argument for the rumours of the 71 going to GAI, given its routing by the garage it would make some level of sense (may I even dare suggest interworking it with the 72?).


    I've been told a few days ago that DB have published new timings for the N4, on the 10th apparently. 30-40 minute gaps at termini are gone, as well as overtaking by 15+ minutes at running time band changes.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,085 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy


    It would be practical too though as having these routes operate out of Bray depot presumably with some Donnybrook work would make more sense than solely out of Ballymount. Also given the 184 is one of the busier single deck operated routes and the 84 is double decker operated might make more sense to these routes to stick with deckers.

    Would make sense to have the 71 operated by GAI and have handovers take place at stop 2769 and 5169. Wonder though would the NTA be reluctant to have them operate a radial route. L44 would probably more sense with GAI too as it would be a bit crazy running buses dead from Ringsend to Tallaght/Blessington/Ballymore Eustace when Ballymount is far closer.



  • Registered Users Posts: 917 ✭✭✭Burt Renaults


    I remain of the opinion that L1/L2/L3 will most likely go to DB, but more so on the basis of the most senior of all senior men on the 84 rather than any practicality.

    That would be the wrong reason for doing what is accidentally the right thing. The fact that the route is driven by "senior men" (and woman) shouldn't be part of any decision. The archaic working practices of Dublin Bus shouldn't be part of the NTA's thinking.

    Sharing the L1/L2 between DB and GAI would provide a golden opportunity to compare the performances of both operators on a level playing field.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,085 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy


    No it would be silly as they're supposed to be interworked to give a 20 minute frequency between Bray and Greystones so better to have operated by the same operator.

    I don't see how it makes a difference if the route is done by senior drivers as senior drivers can be marked in on a different route as it happened when routes are changed or go to another operator as happened when routes went to GAI in the first instance.

    I don't know what working practices in DB are archaic apart from shock horror longer serving staff are rewarded for their service. I don't see what's wrong with this and no I don't work for DB either.



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  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,505 ✭✭✭john boye


    Can't disagree about DB's rostering being archaic but I really don't see what sharing a route between two operators would achieve. If one operator was performing better than the other, then what? What difference would it make?

    NTA already has the operator's performance data, they don't need to run them side by side to compare them. Another thing is how would the average passenger know which company to contact if something went wrong? (I know that should all be centralised to the NTA but it's not and that's the model we have)



  • Registered Users Posts: 325 ✭✭TranslatorPS


    It's not my reason though - I just see the practical aspect of having what's meant to be two interworked routes operated by the same Operator when dealing with Operator-based scheduling (given the right intermediate timing mess on 59 O'Connell Street... well, I had one look at the AVL 33 timings versus the 33A when the latter changed hands and it said it all), but in the end the 84 seniority would be very high on DB's list of arguments.

    I don't know what working practices in DB are archaic apart from shock horror longer serving staff are rewarded for their service. I don't see what's wrong with this and no I don't work for DB either.

    The entire "single rota template for all" thing is rather archaic IMHO (yes, I am purposefully disregarding Mon-Fri drivers and bogeys). I get service rewarding (I don't agree with DB's methods of it but whatever), but a little more flexibility wouldn't hurt so that we wouldn't have a concept of completely "spare" duties. This is where GAI has to be commended - their rotas don't follow set templates for the sake of a set template, but are of adjustable length to account for and fully include the actual number of duties in service, rather than DB's approach of "fit as much as we can into these five-week template blocks and leave the scraps to the spare staff".

    There'd be an actual GAI announcement over it, unlike DB's silent update ;)



  • Registered Users Posts: 4 Katiepie


    So, will there be any buses under the new g spine plans/ orbitals that will connect with the footbridge at liffey valley before entering the interchange? it'd be a long enough walk to get from the footbridge to the new interchange by the entrance. The press releases claim that its going to connect west dublin and west kildare but its not going to do much if its 10 minutes away.



  • Registered Users Posts: 927 ✭✭✭d51984


    Never thought Ide say this but I left Dublin Bus 2 weeks ago, so called job for life. Got a job in a warehouse Mon-Fri better money. Madness.

    Its a disgrace Joe!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,085 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy


    Sorry to hear that considering the responsibility of the job it should pay better than warehouse work



  • Registered Users Posts: 452 ✭✭ITV2




  • Registered Users Posts: 183 ✭✭Fizzy Duck


    Tbh, I think it depends on the garage. The one I'm in seems to have few uni's/bogeys. I know of a guy who left, went to a garage closer to home. But he came back because the duties suited him better here. I know of other lads who left here and never came back. A lot of it is down to perspective. Money is important, but happiness more so.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,416 ✭✭✭VG31


    Does anyone have any idea when the A spine, N2, 19 and 24 routes will be introduced?

    I remember seeing a plan (years ago) with the expected dates for each phase but I can't find anything now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,588 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Loosely, the A Spine is planned for the first half of 2024.

    N2 is in the first half of 2023.

    The 19 and 24 should probably happen at the same time as the E Spine in 2023.

    The ability to acquire sufficient staff will have a bearing on when phases are rolled out going forward, so I’d take planned dates with a degree of skepticism right now.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,416 ✭✭✭VG31


    Thanks for that info.

    I'm not too concerned with the A spine but would be satisified if the airport/Swords buses actually ran. I'm in the airport area frequently for leisure and work. A few weeks ago there was a 45 minute wait in Drumcondra for a bus to the airport. Three 16s in a row were cancelled. I had to wait 40 minutes for a bus on the way home last week due to a combination of cancelled buses and the buses that actually ran being completely full. There must be serious staff shortages.

    It's nowhere near as bad though on the routes I get to go in to town. You'd think they could prioritise the airport more considering how limited the public transport is and the shortage of parking.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,913 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    I know that others will have more information and updates, but I was up at Liffey Valley the other day. The bus hub is coming along nicely. I had time to kill so I decided to walk across the footbridge at N4 to the East/City bound bus stop. A bit of a trek for sure from the bus hub!

    Coming back from there it is very long walk. Off the bus, up the two tier ramp, across the bridge and then, the pedestrian access seems to veer left towards Marks and Spencer meaning you would have to double back to the bus hub.

    I am sure that it will be all foot friendly in due course, but at the moment I'm not so sure.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,588 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer



    There have been large volumes of cancellations and curtailments all across the network for months now due to staffing issues. I do recommend using the TFI app to see them, and maybe make as best alternative plans as possible. The impact of annual summer holidays will reduce come the end of the month, but there are real problems out there. You can see from the numbers of buses parked on Eden Quay how affected other routes are. It is certainly not restricted to the 16 or 41 - there are real problems across the network. Plenty of mass cancellations or curtailments.

    I don't see how you could prioritise some routes over others - if you lived on one of the affected routes that was officially reduced, I don't think you'd be too happy would you?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,880 ✭✭✭trellheim



    Key connectivity to be prioritized - stations, airports, hospitals and so on ?


    16 ad

    Post edited by trellheim on


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,505 ✭✭✭john boye


    There are express coach services for getting to and from the airport. DB PSO routes are local services.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,880 ✭✭✭trellheim


    Sure. I was responding to a question as to how might prioritize one (which should be cancelled) over another by concentrating on more essential connectivity.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,588 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    People who work in said establishments may be using any bus to get into town in the first place - you can’t really say that one particular bus route is more important than another.

    The only prioritisation that could be done is to ensure that low frequency routes are maintained, as gaps on those will have a much greater impact than on higher frequency routes.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,263 ✭✭✭bikeman1


    Re: Dublin Airport routes being cancelled.

    One alternative for people to consider is to take a 33, 41B or 41C to Kealy's pub or ALSAA and walk in from there. If you are going to T2 it is not too far of a walk if able enough on your feet. It takes me about 10 minutes to walk in, which may be far quicker than waiting on a cancelled 16 and 41. Definitely not ideal, but when you are going for a flight, definitely worth it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,416 ✭✭✭VG31


    I have no problem doing that but those buses are just as bad for being cancelled or full.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 248 ✭✭DaBluBoi


    Its cause all of those above routes are operated by Summerhill, where shortages there seem to be ten times worse, particularly during summertime



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