Transgender man wins women's 100 yd and 400 yd freestyle races.

Absolutely not having a go at you personally but this sentence, to me, is indicative of a particular mindset that objects to trans women athletes not out of transphobia per se (although their resulting position is transphobic) but from from sexism.

If being female was shown to be an advantage in a sport, then it would be tested for in the men's competition.

A sexism that simply cannot accept that being biologically female is not a 'disadvantage', that there are sports where it is an advantage, stop considering the sports that are designed around biologically male bodies as being all that there is to sport. And realise the gap between the top men and the top women is often a matter of a second or two.

There are biological females who are suburb athletes and while I am certainly not claiming that a biological women would beat a biological man at elite level as things stand, these women are still elite.

Yet some here seem to think Jimmy Blogs who runs for the local athletic club and used to sprint for his college could beat Shelly-Ann Fraser-Pryce.

The reality is although Fraser-Pryce wouldn't beat any of the top 100 elite biologically male sprinters over 100m, her current best time (10.67) is closer to Paul Hession's Irish record (10.36) [ 0.31] than Hession's is to Bolt's (9. 58) [0.78].

Put simply, there is far more of a chance that Fraser-Pryce could beat Hession's time that any Irish Biologically male sprinter will beat Bolt's.

Elaine Thompson-Herah's fastest time is 10.61, Flo-Jo's record at 10.49 still stands (whatever about allegations about her - her record stands) - that is just 0.13 off the fastest Irishman ever (to date).

There are literally fractions of a second in it.

Yet time and time again women who prove they can do fast/strong get dismissed as 'outliers' - when the reality is very single elite athlete is a outlier.

We are told women who train damn hard, and have outstanding physical capabilities, and literally do the job alongside men, are 'lesser'/not as capable/there for show. As if women firefighters are there for show. Or women soldiers don't do runs with full packs that would cripple most men.

But at the end of the day - this is not about biological females competing against biological males at the highest level.

This is about trans women being allowed to compete as women at the highest level. Trans women who have been taking hormone blockers that are proven to negatively affect their performance from pre-transition times for at least 2 years .

There are, as far as I can see only three reason's to object and all camps are represented in this thread:

a) Trans women are men and therefore can never be regarded as women under any circumstances.

b) No biological woman could ever possibly be a better athlete than a biological man not even when the 'biological man's' so- called hormonal advantage is largely nullified. Therefore it is unfair for any biological woman to compete against a trans woman as the trans woman will win.

c) Men are transitioning as they are mediocre/old and want sporting glory. The only way they can do this is by 'cheating' and taking girl's/women's places

There is no point arguing with the former - their position is ideological, and sport is just one of many 'battlefronts' - it's not even like they care about women's sport.

On b: the fastest (biological) woman over 100m is only 0.13 seconds slower than the fastest (biological) Irishman over 100m. As women's sports becomes better financed and resourced the gap will close (we can see the impact of this in women's rugby where the professional English are in a different league to everyone else), and it is well within the realms of possibility that in the coming decades no Irishman will be fast enough to beat the top 10 women.

And as to the latter : If that is true it ain't working cos honey, they ain't winning.

But if anyone seriously thinks a person would go through the hassle of officially changing gender, taking serious meds (and in some cases undergoing serious surgery - largely self-funded), and living every single day hearing how you are a cheat, a pervert, a groomer, a threat to women on the slim chance they might beat the best of the best than you really belong with the a) group as it appears you are incapable of believing that people go through all the crap associated with transitioning just for their own piece of mind - and afterwards they want to try as much as possible to live the life they could have had if they had been born in the correct (biologically speaking) body.

What - now you want a quota of how many people can transition.

Speaking of MMA

Biologically female 26 year old dies after cage fight with biologically female 34 yr old who was "bigger and stronger"

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/sep/06/family-of-woman-killed-in-cage-fight-express-mismatch-concerns-saeideh-aletaha#:~:text=Saeideh%20Aletaha%2C%20a%2026%2Dyear,bigger%20and%20stronger%20than%20Aletaha.

Another death after a biological female Vs Biological female fight

There is a rather gory video on You Tube of the condition of biological female Kayle Harrison's opponent I won't share here. Harrison is in her 30s and is a former Olympian and world champion with 2 gold medals for judo. She moved into MMA in 2016.

That has absolutely nothing to do with the post you quoted as far as I can see.

My not actually a feminist self already made it clear I am disinclined to discuss this with anyone who cannot resist digs like feminist lens. If you wish to discuss this so called feminist lens crap I suggest you find a TERF (Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist) as they claim to be the true feminists.

Plus - for all your harping on about how people who went through male puberty will always win - they still ain't winning. Making all of the above nothing more than unsupported hypothesis with zero evidence to back it up. No matter how much you desperately want all ^^^ to be true. Real life says it's not.