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Centre right political party

  • 17-07-2022 2:12pm
    Registered Users Posts: 279 ✭✭

    I am currently politically homeless. I would regard myself as centre right - if the PD's were still in existence I would have a political home.

    Does a centre right political party exist in Ireland (I regard FG, FF, LAB, SF, PbP, Greens and SD's as left of centre)?

    Is there a market for a centre right amongst the Irish electorate?


  • Registered Users Posts: 29,071 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78

    ffs, fg and ff are not center left parties, this has been discussed at length on boards, its clearly obvious their economic polices are so....

    lets assume what you mean by this, what you re actually looking for is a more far right party?

  • Registered Users Posts: 279 ✭✭carfinder

    No, please don't assume! And I mentioned the PD's but you come out with "far right" .... what the hell are you on about?... the crazy left wing race amongst all the mainstream parties, in government and in opposition is deeply worrying to me. There is nothing centre right at all about current levels of public spending and the very high marginal income tax rates or, indeed, capital tax rates!

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,003 ✭✭✭rolling boh

    once they would go into government most of there ideas will be watered down like what generally happens .

  • Registered Users Posts: 23,944 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34

    FG are a centre right party. There is simply no debate about that.

    They prioritise strong economic activity as a tide to lift all boats. They want to lower the tax burden on the middle classes. They advocate strong personal responsibility and get behind enterprise and small business.

    The strong Covid support measures weren't socialist in motivation, they were to protect small business and keep jobs open to get people back off the live register as soon as possible and back to work - and it worked.

    Yes, the PDs were even further right, economically, in their time, but FG are a textbook example of a European centre right party of the Christian Democrat tradition.

  • Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx

    Maybe at one time, there is nothing Christian Democrat about them now and has not been in years

    All political parties espouse more public spending and whisper mention of reducing taxes

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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,944 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34

    FG are trying to get a 30% PAYE rate in. If it doesn't happen this budget, with all the economic trouble, it'll happen next.

    The very definition of trying to reduce the burden on their own constituency, the professional and middle classes.

  • Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx

    Yeah ,FG talk a lot about lessening the burden of the middle class, that's all it ever is though, talk

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,278 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody

    There's as well the question of more right on what issues. Economy? LGBTQ+ and similar softer issues? Religion in general (be it religious schools, right to pray/wear etc.)? There's no longer a clear left to right scale as someone may be right wing (conservative) on economy but left wing on social issues for example. Then there's the question what's considered conservative these days with Boris and Trump's money tree approach with more borrowing vs. the older school lower taxes and balanced budget approach. It's a royal mess these days...

  • Registered Users Posts: 16,221 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf

    As Michael McDowell used to say after the PDs snuffed it, just because there's a gap in the market doesn't mean there's a market in the gap...

    My view is that democracy is self-correcting: if there really was this pent-up demand for a party to the right of FF and FG, somenody would have come along and met it...

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,425 ✭✭✭beggars_bush

    What would a centre right political party look like in Ireland?

    List a few policies or areas you feel unrepresented on?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,221 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf

  • Registered Users Posts: 906 ✭✭✭Everlong1

    Law and order. There isn't a single party in Ireland committed to tackling the tide of thuggery and anti-social behaviour in the country. Closely linked to this is the size of our welfare state. All parties are now committed to keeping the welfare lifestyle an attractive option. Which in turn will mean more and more generations of white trash who think spending all day drinking, drugging, and breeding more and more feral toerag children is the only way to live. These feral children will of course grow up into yet more of the 100+ conviction adult toerags we're all dealing with now, amply aided and abetted by the free legal aid arm of the welfare state. And on and on the cycle goes. Any political party daring to raise these issues, never mind actually try and tackle them, would be instantly demonised by the media as extreme right/anti-poor people etc. If they had a good PR machine and a bit of money behind them though I think they might do well. There's a lot of fed up decent people out there who simply aren't being represented any more by parties falling over each other to be woker than thou, which is what brought us Trump and Brexit.

  • Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]

    Nope a lot of silly people believing the likes of the above would be fixed by voting right wing , as well as some good old fashioned bigotry brought us trump and brexit.

    If voting right wing and having no welfare state fixed crime and everything else, then America wouldn't have one of the highest crime rates and the highest prison population per capita in the world

    The tories in the U.K. have been trying to emulate the U.S. for the last few years and shot the country in the foot, and should be a warning for anyone else trying to go the same route. Even in a lite version like FFG and the market will provide attitude, which there are plenty of examples of how that doesn't pan out.

    Not saying anything or everything a left leaning party in government does is great, but considering the fact that we haven't had one, and the idiots who are supposed to be aren't fit for the job, it is moot imo.

  • Registered Users Posts: 900 ✭✭✭sameoldname

    I always end up asking the same question in these threads and never once have I got an answer. Name a country that has enacted the policies that you wish for this country to follow. That way we can have a genuine debate about said policies without them being divorced from their effects.

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,134 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha

    Fine Gael are a centre-right party. I've no idea why people keep throwing out this No True Scotsman.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,438 ✭✭✭McGiver

    OK, talkign economy purely - because that's the left-right scale. Authoritarion-Conservative-Liberal has nothing to do with left-right or the economy, that'sa social dimension. Let's set this straight so that we talk left-right.

    Now, where does the bloody "very high marginal tax rate" myth in Ireland come from?

    I've written about this on boards so many times, yet the myth so deeply ingrained that folks simply cannot comprehend the evidence.

    Marginal tax rate doesn't matter, what matters is the effective taxation, now I'm talking income tax + social contrinutions + VAT.

    There's many papers on this done by consultancy companies, I did my analysis based on one of these papers and clearly Ireland comes at the bottom of the EU league when you compare "average full time wage" country to country. In fact, Ireland comes at 3rd lowest after Malta and Cyprus (both tax havens and microstates). If you compare low earners and high earners the situation varies, but in no category is Ireland "very high" on the list.

    If you think your "marginal tax" rate is very high here, I would like to see your face and hear the label you would apply to Belgian, Danish, Portuguese or German tax rates.

    The question in Ireland is not about the rate but about the bang-for-the-buck, which is indeed poor. But if your government tax take is so low as is in Ireland you can't make miracles with the money you get. It's a race to the bottom situation with chronic underinvestment (in infrastructure and services). Of course one could argue that giving more money to governments with poor track record wouldn't improve much in terms of delivery, but that's a separate ideological discussion ("small state" etc).

    What I agree with you is the capital tax rate, that's insanely high and discourages investment vs consumption (bad) or property investment (bad - fuels property bubbles).

    I wouldn't call FG left at all, they are actually fairly pro-market and laissez-faire as it can get. The whole tax haven stuff and ultra low taxation of MNCs is pretty much as "right as you can get". The anomaly is in unequal and very disbalanced taxation of SMEs, MNCs, self-employed and employed. A truly centre-right or right or let's say economically liberal party would tax these various groups all the same with a low and probably flat rate.

    Anyhow, FG is centre-right.

  • Registered Users Posts: 13,260 ✭✭✭✭Geuze

    Marginal tax rates do matter.

    People do make decisions at the margin.

    Faced with a 48.5% MTR on income above 37k approx, people do change their behaviour.

    I fully accept that effective income tax rates here, especially on earners between 15-50k are lower than elsewhere.

    But to dismiss the marginal rates is not reasonable.

  • Registered Users Posts: 13,260 ✭✭✭✭Geuze

    There is not "chronic underinvestment" in healthcare in Ireland.

    There have been large increases in public spending, and large increases in staffing.

    H/care exp is actually too high, relative to the age profile of our population.

    The "bang for the buck is poor" - yes it is, but this is not due to a lack of expenditure.