Advertisement
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.
Hi all, please see this major site announcement: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058427594/boards-ie-2026

Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

15435445465485491836

Comments

  • Posts: 2,519 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Everyone wants us to win the World Cup, but the point you're missing is that there is plenty more to be achieved.

    You can get phenomenally lucky and have good success in a world cup; in terms of the draw you receive, injuries etc.

    It would be suicidal for team morale and counter-intuitive to trying to win a WC if the team don't do everything in their power to win this test series next week. That means picking the best team.

    I've no problem if some guys like Coombes, Timoney, Larmour or someone turns in a huge performance tomorrow morning and forces their way into the test squad for this weekend on merit, but this thing you and others constantly tout for of just throwing in players who haven't earned it to "build experience" or to see if maybe they might be good enough doesn't make sense.



  • Posts: 2,519 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Yeah, I'm not disputing that, but I'm saying focusing on and celebrating successes in the interim period and aiming to win RWCs is not mutually exclusive.

    Writing off the significance of 75%+ of international rugby and the other achievements that are out there is what I'm opposed to.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Larmour has earned it! On the other lads, it's best to find out sooner, rather than later? Suppose VDF misses the world cup? Suppose Connors does to. What experience against top level teams does Timoney have?

    The same with Casey! He's clearly a lad that is good enough. Whatever weakness he has can be worked on before the world cup. But, we won't know. Especially if he only plays against weak opposition.

    You plan for every event and have a full deck prior to the world cup! That's all I am thinking.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,029 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Suppose VDF misses the world cup? Suppose Connors does to. What experience against top level teams does Timoney have?

    There's a fair chance that our back-up 7 is POM, not Timoney.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭TRC10


    I get all that. But maybe, just maybe, a series decider away in NZ isn't really the best match to "throw guys in" and "give them experience". You wouldn't be throwing guys in for a grand slam decider to be fair. Winning a series in NZ would be a bigger achievement than a grand slam.

    November matches against the likes of Australia or Argentina maybe. And to be fair, that's what we scheduled the two Mãori games for. I think Farrell knew that we'd be going all out to win this series, and that's why he pushed to get the two Mãori games, to have a look at young guys and give them experience against a team who would be roughly the same level as a Japan or Fiji.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭TRC10


    And one other thing. I've heard a lot of people complaining about "not building depth" and "repeating the same mistakes as the last cycle".

    Was depth really our problem at the last world cup? I'd have said that our obsolete game plan, lack of evolution of said game plan post the 2018 GS, persistence with underperforming players, and performance anxiety as a result of an over-controlling coach, were far bigger problems than our depth.

    I can't think of an example of a player being called upon due to injury, and then underperforming due to not being given enough exposure in the build up. I genuinely can't.



  • Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭ Everleigh Freezing Oasis


    Agree, I don't think a couple of personnel changes were going to make a huge difference. We might have beaten Japan maybe with Sexton but we were never threatening to go far in the tournament.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭TRC10


    For the first 20 minutes of the Japan game, things were going great and Carty was pulling the strings really well. And let's not forget Sexton was also on the pitch when things turned to sh*t against England, Wales and NZ. I don't think Sexton would have made much of a difference.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    I agree! That side were poorly coached and had no clue as to what to do in tight matches! That was a coaching failure more than individual players.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Right! It's possible that was Farrells goal. Winning this series would be fantastic. Although, I think winning the 6nations is a better achievement!

    I think Farrell has been very good! I wasn't chuffed when he got the job but, I was in favor of giving him the full cycle. He's done some good stuff.

    I don't believe that we'll test many or any fringe lads in the autumn.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Although, I think winning the 6nations is a better achievement!

    Nah no way. The 6N is essentially 4 games, 2 of which are at home, all against teams we've beaten loads of times.

    Winning a 3 test series, in NZ (where we'd never won before), at the end of a long season, against the standard bearers of world rugby, would be a much bigger achievement IMO.

    I don't believe that we'll test many or any fringe lads in the autumn.

    I don't know. I think against Fiji and Australia we could see a good bit of rotation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,779 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    The whole building depth thing is only 1 aspect to squad management. It’s important, no doubt, but it’s still just 1 of a number of elements. I think the big thing that Farrell wants from this tour is getting the experience in our starting XV of winning big, high pressure games away from home. Remember, the RWC is effectively a tour. And there’s a bunch of guys in our 23 who are on their first ever tour now, and the only one they’ll be in before the RWC. It’s great having depth and all, but if we don’t have the mentality that we can win big, high pressure games away from home on the bounce (which we’ll have to do in the RWC and which can only truly be learned by actually doing it) then the depth won’t really matter that much in those knock out games.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 420 ✭✭roverjoyce


    What sort of example does this show to youth players/ amateurs when Ireland are putting players through 3 HIA tests to play a game

    Leaderships for concussion comes from the top down, which is the national teams and England show be thanked for putting the player first



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,029 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    when Ireland are putting players through 3 HIA tests to play a game

    This is the protocol mandated by World Rugby.

    The England guys (Itoje anyway) were ruled out after failing the second, post-game assessment. This is the 'early diagnosis of concussion' test - the HIA assessment during the game is only for 'potential concussion'.

    TLDR Ireland are doing exactly as dictated by the governing body and exactly as other teams are doing.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,484 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    You could rightly argue that making a mockery of the HIA procedure shows scant regard for it.



  • Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭ Everleigh Freezing Oasis


    Anyone else think Jackman is turning into a pretty decent pundit/analyst/commentator/whatever? I tend to learn quite a lot from listening to him, he goes into good technical detail on things the average fan wouldn't really spot.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,863 ✭✭✭sprucemoose




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 367 ✭✭OneLungDavy


    He's easily one of the best pundits in Ireland. I think a lot of the big name pundits here are full of cliched waffle. Jackman is certainly one of the good ones.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Terrible commentator, great pundit/analyst.

    I've always thought he gets a lot of unfair stick. Good to see people appreciate him more.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,790 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203




  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,437 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    Looking at that team today it struck me how young and yet very capable a lot of the players were.

    It's almost as if this squad was selected to prepare for RWC 2027 as well. Below are the players under 29.

    Note how few players there are in the 27-28 bracket, Ringrose and Byrne being the exceptions in the squad.

    1. Porter (26), Loughman (26), Byrne (28),
    2. Kelleher (24), Sheehan (23),
    3. O'Toole (23),
    4. McCarthy (21),
    5. Ryan (25), Treadwell (26),
    6. Ryan Baird (22), Prendergast (22),
    7. Timoney (26),
    8. Doris (24), Coombes (24),
    9. Casey (23),
    10. Carbery (26), Harry Byrne (23),
    11. Hansen (24), O'Brien (25)
    12. Frawley (24),
    13. Ringrose (27), James Hume (23),
    14. Larmour (25),
    15. Keenan (26), Lowry (23),

    Bolded anyone that has featured for the senior team quite a bit already.

    That's a good squad, there will be some interesting debates on who should join that group in the coming years and fingers crossed they will all remain fit.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,949 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    Props to you Jack! And Props are our problem!.....& Sexton!!

    Weird to see Nucifora in the coaching box today. Im not entirely sure what the Performance Director does and doesnt do.

    The 'elite player development pathway' hasn't unearthed a quality Test prop since...Porter? & then they switched him!

    The prop position was a problem when he started in 2014. Feek was soon appointed as National Scrum coach and helping the National Scrum Development Programme. I think Fogarty's now also double jobs this role.

    Ireland are in deep trouble going into WC year.

    Wonder what young props will have made the grade to quality test props by 2027?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,940 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    I’ve high hopes for Josh Wycherley, but for this tour, and with a view to the RWC, I’d still have picked Warwick ahead of him atm.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,437 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    There are loads of loose-heads around, Calum Reid would be my one-to-watch.

    For tight-heads, I think Aungier and one of the Munster props might make a break-through next season, French, Knox or Salanoa. I've a feeling French could come out as the best of them all.

    Also, Abdaladze hasn't really had much exposure so far, would be interested to see him play and see what he could do. Clarkson is another one in the pipe-line, but not sure how far away he is from playing a lot of minutes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,127 ✭✭✭arsebiscuits1


    I'm backing Jack Boyle to leapfrog the lot of them! Break out season incoming!!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    I'm hoping Milne makes a return and lights it up. I think Boyle needs to grow physically. Same with Wycherly. Loughman can do a job in the meantime. He was really impressive this season. At loosehead, as far as young prospects go there's

    Wycherly

    Milne

    Reid

    Boyle.

    Tightheads that are young bucks

    O'Toole, he's in pole position

    Aungier

    Clarkson

    Knox, French

    And coming along soon there's Rory McGuire! Scott Wilson, who looks superb! Kieran Ryan! Underage also and McSweeney, who needs a lot of development.

    Haddon is an u19 with potential and Michel is going into Connachts academy.

    I think gearing up for 2027 will be interesting.



  • Posts: 2,519 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    There is pretty high hopes in Leinster Schools circles too about Paddy McCarthy, Blackrock's SCT winning THP this year. He's Joe McCarthy's younger brother, and has generated a good deal of hype as well.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,949 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    Im not sure if either would cut the mustard... but beggars cant be choosers. Maybe Jack Boyle is everything we hope in can be & in 12 months time please!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭TRC10


    I'd be very surprised if Boyle is a test quality prop in 12 months time. Our best hope is that Loughman becomes a solid, if not unspectacular international, like a Wyn Jones, George Bower or Mike Ross. If he can get to that level in the next 12 months, that's good for us.

    If Wycherley puts on some size and hits the ground running next season, I can see him coming into the mix because his skills are exceptional and he'd fit in really well with the brand of rugby we're playing.

    Milne has the physique, he just needs the game time. There's an opening there for him with Dooley leaving and Healy getting on.

    Maybe if Dooley nails down the 1 jersey at Connacht and finds some good form, he could become an option.



  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 6,525 Mod ✭✭✭✭dregin




Advertisement
Advertisement