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Ukrainian refugees in Ireland - Megathread

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 29,732 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    This is the whole thing.. if people are genuinely fleeing a warzone and a real risk of death then you'd imagine their only thought would be to get themselves and their family to the nearest safe point - preferably not to far from home so as to be close to family who didn't leave, or just to be with others in the same situation and preferably in a place where they share common cause.

    You'd THINK that the first place then would be to the vast expanse of territory in Ukraine not under threat by the Russians or at a push, neighbouring countries. Coming to a small island off the western coast of Europe would seem to be the last place you'd want to go - especially if you don't speak the language or understand/share the culture.

    So why are they trying to get here? Why are non-essential services, businesses and even private citizens being pressured to offer them things, not only at zero cost (to them), but ahead of others already waiting/paying for that service/product? Why are the Government offering the same accesses to welfare, employment and other "entitlements" as everyone else, rather than say a temporary and reduced PUP-style payment?

    As I've said before, something doesn't add up, and it's becoming clearer week by week that whatever is really driving it, it's very little to do with saving victims of war - which isn't even a war but more a regional conflict were the Ukrainians are apparently very capably holding their own.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Nah any Gov criticisms that would be. The issue is irrelevant. Just criticism of gov.



  • Posts: 5,121 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    There are some amount of ‘nothing to see here’ posters on this thread



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,359 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    I would presume the refugees arrived with braces and didnt get them here ,.Not denying for one minute that there is inequality now between us and the refugees but I very much doubt that they flew in and got braces on the HSE



  • Posts: 17,847 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Dental treatment must have been cheaper and more freely available in Ukraine than here.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,200 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    I'd genuinely like to know how in heavens name (if it's true) Ukrainian refugees are getting dental appointments. Few dentists left on the Medical card panel and it's near impossible to get an appointment as a new patient, Dentists want nothing to do with the medical card arrangement and there's not a chance in hell they are offering free treatments, especially Braces , Complicated treatments, who is paying for all these treatments and we're are these magical appointments being arranged.

    There is emergency treatments for children in designated hospitals and adults in the catchment area of the Dental hospital in Dublin but none of these services include complicated treatments.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Posts: 17,847 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,227 ✭✭✭0ph0rce0




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 556 ✭✭✭Whocanibe


    I doubt it too, however, there seems to be a great sense of entitlement, and as Kaiser has pointed out, there is something not right about the whole sorry mess. I watch my children struggle even with both parents working, as I'm sure you do too, they wouldn't have that much disposable income, and most of what's being paid out is going out of the country anyway. We can't seem to question any of it without being accused of being a racist,and I find that worrying.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,200 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    I'm not referring to that point , just generally as to were Ukrainian refugees are getting Dental treatments here, we're and who's paying for it , I've seen mention of it and curious particularly as I know for a fact very few dentists doing MC treatments and even if they were , only certain treatments covered, this aside it's near impossible to get an appointment as a new patient.

    So not specifically referring to a specific post.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




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  • Posts: 3,686 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    to be fair I doubt any Ukrainians got braces here in Ireland. There are only here a few months and wouldn't have progressed to that stage with any dentist, that's if they were lucky enough to get a dentist to treat them!

    I am a private patient getting an implant with bone graft an paying a fortune (but that's my choice as I don't want a gap in my teeth and I don't want to fly to Turkey to get a cheaper dentist either)......... but I am waiting 6 months between appointments as they are so busy.

    I have no time now for what's going on in relation to Ukrainians and preferential treatment but I seriously doubt any of them got braces in Ireland, some of them are probably looking for dentists to tighten them, some others to start treatment, but they'll be waiting.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,487 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    What should in an equal and fair society have happened.. they should have been given a healthcare status that was called I don’t know.. Asylum Status…or whatever a more appropriate term….

    Their treatment is covered if they get in an accident, have a heart attack, stroke, cancer etc… in other words, life or death… plus all essential medications required via prescription…

    anything cosmetic, orthopaedic, or quality of life enhancing treatments such as a new hip, knee replacement, cataracts, spinal fusion etc….just say nope, not covered here. Medicine such as vitamin supplements, not included too.

    thats perfectly acceptable and fair to limit it as they don’t pay taxes and the country will benefit negatively financially from their stay in the state anyway. That’s before we end up chucking hundreds of millions in healthcare to them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 648 ✭✭✭Irelandsnumberone


    Northen Ireland is your place to go save a few quid. Dental treatment is usually alot cheaper



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,359 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    I agree with you about the amount of disposable income they have . Most live in hotels with three meals a day , heat , light and wifi yet still get €205 plus extra for each child . My guess is much of that is going back to Ukraine .

    Alot of post on FB asking for free stuff are now being answered with links to where you can buy them .

    One post asked for accommodation for a week for four people on route to Canada !! They were told to go jump !

    I see a lot of people now fed up of this entitled attitude . I blame our Government for flinging everything at them and no questions asked .

    We have family in our vacant home who are completely looking after their own needs , no hand out , no asking for anything . They know they have enough to live on and spend it wisely . They saved their few bob to buy a coffee machine and are so delighted to just feel safe and at peace . They are genuine refugees who need shelter until they can get back home . I have no problem at all that they are cared for and medical needs covered for now

    But like more and more people I see the huge inequality between our own less well off and the refugees .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,487 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    this is a real watershed period in the timeline of this state, what happens next might make it into future history books, when it becomes apparent that people can and should return to the Ukraine in comparative safety… there will be a real butting of heads and a tug of war..

    team A : ok the war is over adios, benefit cut off in X months, payment to your landlord cut off the same time and medical card expires xx

    team B : ok give them all citizenship, passports, free housing, medical cards with no expiration date, continuous financial support.



  • Posts: 17,847 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Re medical cards, these will be reviewed in the coming months, same as for existing Irish medical card holders.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,359 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    It cant be the same . Medical cards are means tested so how on earth are they going to means test the refugees . ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 29,732 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    You just know that Team B will be spearheaded by the likes of Helen McEntee who it seems can't "regularise" enough "refugees" or migrants.

    The argument will be, as we've seen already where deportation orders have been issued, that they have built lives here, are part of the community, their kids are in school (with lots of coverage of their classmates wanting them to stay), etc etc

    If they don't want to go home now when the fighting is confined to a relatively small region vs the overall territory then they certainly won't when it's finally over and the work to rebuild starts.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 29,732 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    They're NOT the same as Irish medical card holders though, and nor should they be treated as such.

    These are supposed refugees who are here temporarily and only until they can either return home, or support themselves the same as everyone else (and handouts limited to a definite time so as to encourage them to do so).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,487 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    And if everyone did that sure nobody gets deported. Mad.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,055 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Same- and I chose to get vaccinated but totally respect those that didn’t- it’s none of my business and it certainly isn’t the states- covid set a very worrying precedence for over bearing interference of the state in all aspects of our lives. It akin to a modern day witch hunt



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭John Doe1


    Ive never been angrier at an Irish government in my life. We need a new party that is fiscally conservative, supports western liberal values (gay marriage/abortion) but is strong on illegal immigration, doesnt engage in woke virtue signalling and most importantly puts its citizens first.

    In the short term, we need a Mass protest movement akin to the water charges/lisbon treaty ones.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,200 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    The handing out of Discretionary Medical cards has always perplexed me. There was absolutely no need to do so . I can see the sense of Government issuing something to allow access to A & E services as few GP's are actually seeing Ukrainian refugees in their surgeries, not be cause they don't want to, they've simply no capacity and besides assigning a GP to any MC holder is not straightforward and has been explained at Nausim, GP's under no obligation to accept new patients or MC holders for a host of reasons, regardless of the residency status of a patient.

    Anyone who's gone through the application process knows that despite the notions they are handed out like confetti, understands fully there are strict eligibility criteria rules.

    No right thinking person would object to access to Medical care and indeed prescription medicines for Ukrainian or indeed other Refugees, but given this was supposed to be a Temporary arrangement (Clearly Government knew otherwise) its simply beggar's belief they couldn't have come up with a system to allow access that didn't require issuing MC.

    As for reviewing these Temporary MC , that's not only NOT going to happen, it would be near impossible to carry out a review and that's a simple fact.

    I've not personally seen one these Discretionary MC but normal practice is MC are issued for 12 months , I doubt very much any of the Ukranian Refugees got one issued for less than 12 months (open to correction) and its highly likely these MC will be extended for another 12 months with no review.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Posts: 17,847 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Are you saying that people who are willing to sleep on camp beds with little to no privacy, have shedloads of money squirrelled away back in Ukraine?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,359 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    Do not put words in my mouth that I didnt say . Medical cards are means tested in Ireland for its citizens and for anyone who applys for one .

    So absolutely the same rule must apply to anyone who gets a medical card here in Ireland . There cannot under any circumstances be one rule for anyone arriving into our country and another rule for people living here . I think any clear thinking person would agree with this



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,200 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Are you referring to "Other" refugees 🤔 is there Ukranian refugees sleeping on camp beds with little or no privacy 🤔 I think not , perhaps very, very, very briefly last March but surely not now or have I missed something in all of the frenzied Virtue Signalling 🤔

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,551 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    Heading into the winter with extra fuel costs and with the rate of inflation, refugees will in a lot of cases have more disposable income than middle income earning families.

    How anyone can agree with what is going on is beyond me, you would assume they are in no way affected by what is going on so don't care about irish families who are struggling.



  • Posts: 3,686 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    so if Ukrainians are sleeping on camp beds it means they are all poor as church mice....is that right? Then what is the point of means testing any of them apart from being box ticking exercise. if we make that assumption? We don't know anything about any of their backgrounds. I assume anyone who came here in a desperate fleeing shelling and bombing would have been given a camp bed initially..... even it is was their equivalent of Michael O Leary. That's what genuine refuge is. The bottom line is they cant be means tested anyway so its a moot point.

    As time goes on and what is happening in Ukraine is becoming more clear, why would these people not return home to another part of their country until things settle? Kiev is back open for business, shops, schools, restaurants along with much of the country apart from the Eastern region. At least they don't have the language difficulties they have here.

    Wealthier people have more choices and could decide to settle somewhere else but anyone who is here AT THIS STAGE in Ireland is here for economical reasons, not for refuge. They could return home or they could settle in any other European country they pass through on their way to Ireland. But no, they choose to stay in Ireland. I wonder why?



  • Posts: 17,847 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Scores are put up in sports complexes in Clonmel and Littleton here in Tipp. Similar in other counties. Like Citywest in Dublin and the Millstreet arena in Cork. Thousands of others are cramped into tiny bedrooms in formerly disused convents, sharing bathroom and kitchen facilities with numerous other families.



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  • Posts: 3,686 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    These people have very poor English so I doubt they realise what a basket case Ireland is in terms of housing. The amount of requests by Ukrainians on their "Helping Hand for Ukrainians" page is testament to this. People wanting to move from one area to another as though it is easy, seeking areas like Howth and Malahide, South Dublin etc.

    If they understood English they would have picked up pretty quickly the huge difficulty Irish people have when it comes to finding housing and they would realise how lucky they are. They might also start making plans a bit quicker to move on somewhere else or move home as they will not be getting a nice little apartment and all their benefits like free bus, free education, free medical care, SUSI grants, and all social welfare payments anytime soon. What is really annoying is seeing Ukrainian replies (which can be translated anyway on Facebook) encouraging more people to come to Ireland as "the Government will look after you, they will pay for everything".

    This Winter will sort out a lot of this, I would imagine when people realise they are not all going to get a nice little apartment of their very own many will return home. The Government cannot fulfil it's promise of housing them all despite its virtue signaling!



This discussion has been closed.
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