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Dreadful..

«13

Comments

  • Site Banned Posts: 20,686 ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    Person should do the maximum amount of prison time and never, ever be allowed to drive and a lengthy community service after.


    A career potentially ended but these trauma of it is probably going to take some coming back from.


    Possibility of it being politicised to finally make some system for taking complaints seriously but also simplifying the process.


    Best of luck to the victim though



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,167 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    she's a mother of young children AFAIK, so a long custodial sentence would not be sensible.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,408 ✭✭✭secman


    She wasn't worrying about the kids when driving under the influence, and leaving an injured man on the road to die..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,826 ✭✭✭✭dahat




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,874 ✭✭✭standardg60


    I really don't understand statements like this. So if it was anyone else the book should be thrown at them?

    Whatever happened to justice being blind.

    If she was drunk then who's to say the kids would be better off without her?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 984 ✭✭✭Still stihl waters 3




  • Registered Users Posts: 984 ✭✭✭Still stihl waters 3


    Horrific stuff, she has to do time for something like this but knowing our soft justice system I wouldn't hold my breath



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,772 ✭✭✭cython


    That's for the investigation to determine, but other media outlets reported she was at least tested for it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,112 ✭✭✭Bambaata


    Same, feck other circumstances, every action should be punished for what it was. Kids and their family life should have nothing to do with it! She severely injured someone and should be punished accordingly. Driving off, and if reports are correct, under the influence exacerbates it for me and judges really need to start doing their job! She'll get feck all for this, she shouldnt be allowed drive again and should see a cell. That poor guy has to live with that for the rest of his life, she should feel some tiny piece of his pain!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,862 ✭✭✭Large bottle small glass


    If driver was a young father what then?

    Maybe if the mother looking behind her doing 120km/h on the N40 had been jailed less people would be inclined to take chances with the safety of other road users.

    If we don't jail someone who runs from scene because she's a mother, when do we jail a mother?



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,167 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    you and a few others. maybe a discussion for the legal forum rather than here.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,264 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    Terrible. The poor man.

    Only utter scum leave the scene of an accident having injured someone. Spare me the excuses.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,155 ✭✭✭T-Maxx


    Please God let it not be Judge Nolan.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,408 ✭✭✭secman




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,274 ✭✭✭downtheroad


    Do we let all mothers of young children away with committing any crime? Murder someone, ah she has kids so forget about it.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    From what I read in some reports it was her own partner who called the Gardai after she landed in.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,872 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    Horrific stuff, thankfully someone managed to tourniquet the leg before he died. But his life has changed forever.

    I have to wonder about all these close passes, intimidation & punishment buzzes and general state these people are in when they decide to get behind the wheel.

    I'd given up cycling to school with the kids a year ago. To many chunts making it uncomfortable, blaring their horns when I'm overlapping the back wheel of my 12 year old girls bike, close passing, overtaking and turning left 2 metres away, pulling in on top of us, overtaking with oncoming traffic, ignoring my very obvious hand signals and blocking us, revving behind us to move us along...

    I'd love to be cycling, the kids are excellent cyclists, the went from balance bikes to proper bikes, they know the rules of the road, I was a cycle courier, I lived in Dublin City for 12 years without a car fully reliant on bikes...

    But they're on the scooters and skateboards until things improve.

    The chunts won.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,874 ✭✭✭standardg60


    As would anyone with any morals. Christ if the missus arrived home pissed with a foot hanging off the car i'd like to think adopting the Mrs Lovejoy approach would be the last thing on my mind.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,260 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    It is terrible to read this. I thought it was reported the driver was under the influence of alcohol. Not sure the accuracy of that information.

    Custodial should be mandatory if a driver leaves the scene but in Ireland who knows what the judiciary will sentence on any given day. A mother is unlikely to be given custodial sentence in Ireland for something like this due to a lack of female prison accommodation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,442 ✭✭✭LollipopJimmy


    His foot found lodged in the car... sweet Jesus. Her kids would be better off with her locked up



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,874 ✭✭✭standardg60


    Lord knows how far he was dragged before it gave way, wonder what distance there was between the bike and where he was found



  • Registered Users Posts: 984 ✭✭✭Still stihl waters 3


    I didn't see that in the article, anyway, hope the poor man recovers well, terrible thing to happen



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,260 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    That's awful. I didnt know that. The poor man. Goes for a short cycle and will never return to the life he had/knew before that.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,161 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    You forget when you shout at someone for nearly hitting you that they didn't just nearly hit you, they nearly changed your life in a way you cannot imagine unless you have been through it, or ended it permanently. This needs to be the full wallop for the drink driving and a custodial sentence for leaving the scene. Every driver who skims you to get to get to a red light or the back of a queue, whether they realise it or not, this is the value they put on your quality of like, between 0 and 30 seconds, typically closer to 0 seconds in towns/cities. Thats how much you are worth because typically, thats what they save. Alas precedent has been set to let people off the hook so she won't face much punishment I fear, we have had vehicular manslaughter charges where the defendents punishment was they had to leave the country, thats it.



  • Posts: 3,656 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    and as a mother of young children its ok to get behind the wheel of a car under the influence of drink?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,167 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    yes, that's the exact conclusion i wanted people to draw from that statement.



  • Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭GalwayMan74


    Absolutely disgusting statement.

    You need to get your head checked out.

    Surprised you haven't blamed him for not being on a cycle lane.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,167 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    looks like it's going to be a morning of people putting words in my mouth.



  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 7,411 Mod ✭✭✭✭pleasant Co.


    Feel free to clarify your words I guess. Seems you've ignored the father in your statement entirely.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,167 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i'm not sure i want to be drawn into a debate where (some!) people have shown a willingness to wilfully misinterpret what i said.

    but to clarify; i did not state she does not deserve punishment. i did not state it's OK for her to have done what she did. i did not state the cyclist was to blame in any way, shape or form. HTH.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 436 ✭✭Girl Geraldine


    As someone said, she is a mother of young children and it would therefore be not appropriate to give her a custodial sentence as it would, in effect, be a punishment on the children for the misdeeds of the mother. That would not be right.

    The only circumstance where a mother of young children really ought to be imprisoned is where she is a very high risk of reoffending voilently, or is a danger to the childern.

    Community service of some form that is not going to have a negative effect on the children is what is most apprpriate here.

    At the end of the day she is a young woman in her 20s too. She had an accident and then made a mistake and just panicked and left.

    She isn't really a danger of reoffending like this.


    Yes, she should face some consequences for her actions, I fully agree. But her totally innocent children should not be punished indirectly for it.



  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 7,411 Mod ✭✭✭✭pleasant Co.


    I'm sure many criminals have children, it is utterly bonkers to suggest they should face a lesser sentence so as not to indirectly punish the children of those criminals and downright insulting to infer that the fathers of these children are less suited to raising them than their criminal mother.



  • Posts: 13,688 ✭✭✭✭ Leslie Plump Grenade


    Magicbastarder is spot on.

    What benefit is a custodial sentence?

    Community service and attendance of a treatment facility if she was indeed under the influence. Strict warning that if she misbehaves again she'll be in the slammer.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,167 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    it is utterly bonkers to suggest they should face a lesser sentence so as not to indirectly punish the children of those criminals

    not only is it not 'utterly bonkers', it's precisely the point; trying to avoid further harm by balancing potential damaging effects of custodial sentences with the valid reasons supporting those custodial sentences. i would be very, very surprised if i was to learn that judges do not regularly suspend/commute/etc. sentences, based on family situations.

    avoiding jailing mothers where possible is not some awful, beyond-the-pale concept; it's pretty much baked into the criminal justice system AFAIK.




  • Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭GalwayMan74


    Ah yes,

    the non violent crime of ripping someones leg off with your car while pissed and driving off.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,408 ✭✭✭secman


    So in essence and equality ...no young mother or young father leaving the scene of an accident and potentially leaving a person..probably a mother or father on the side of a road to die should get Custodial sentence.... 🤔 Lunatics running the asylum stuff ....

    Might save more lives of cyclists if hard sentences were given for this type of behaviour....



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,167 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    no young mother or young father leaving the scene of an accident and potentially leaving a person..probably a mother or father on the side of a road to die should get Custodial sentence....

    it should be considered, depending on circumstances. i'm not arguing 'there is no justification for a custodial sentence' - clearly there is; but it has to be weighed against the possibility that the father is not around, or there's potentially no supporting extended family. granted, there may be in this case, as it seems it was a family member who persuaded/browbeat the woman into turning herself in.



  • Registered Users Posts: 506 ✭✭✭asdfg87


    Was this person not released without charge. i cannot understand any of this.

    Its tough on the Gardai and family.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,167 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,350 ✭✭✭Daroxtar


    Released without charge doesn't really mean anything. The Gardai and DPP will be gathering the evidence and preparing the case. Charges will be brought against her, just not today



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    it may well be the article is the reason she was released.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,832 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    What I can never understand is the willingness of the authorities - be it legislature or judiciary - to permit laughably short periods of disqualification for people convicted of dangerous driving, drink driving etc. I just can't get my head around it. Seeing the amount of shocking driving every time I cycle, I can only imagine how bad someone must be to end up being charged, prosecuted and convicted... and still end up back behind the wheel a few years later.

    Appropriately long periods of disqualification and proper enforcement would go a long way towards indicating that dangerous driving isn't tolerated. You can tell from any interaction with motorists that there's a general attitude of "yeah, but sure, it's tough driving, gimme a break and get over yourself".

    You'd swear that driving a car was a fundamental human right. If you've demonstrated a complete disregard for the requirement to have insurance, pay tax, have up to date NCT, let alone drive sober and within the speed limits, the book should be thrown at you. Penalty points are a joke. Kind of like a 'tut tut, don't be a naughty fella now and stop wasting my time'.

    Tragic and all as this case is, it's nothing new to cyclists and is only making the headlines because of the click-bait details (severed foot, off duty garda, hit and run). Sporadic high profile custodial sentences won't make a bit of difference and will be forgotten within a few weeks... it's the underlying attitude that needs to be tackled.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,167 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i have a sneaking suspicion many judges don't come down heavily on driving offences because of a 'there but for the grace of god go i' nagging voice in the back of their heads. and the use of 'driving without due care and attention' when it's perfectly clear that the driving in question was wilful and dangerous, and thus should get a 'dangerous driving' charge is infuriating.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,937 ✭✭✭De Bhál


    Drunk driving, hitting a cyclist and severing his leg and people don't want a custodial sentence just because she has kids...what about the cyclists's children (if he has any)? They are now punished also because of this.

    I can't fathom this as someone with young kids myself and a daily cyclist, this would have a massive impact on my children, just the simple fact I wouldn't be able to go out a kick a ball about in the evenings with them etc (at the very least)... The whole thing is sickening.

    The scary part of it is, all cyclists in this country know it could just as easily be them as EVERY time you go out on the road either driving, walking or cycling you see ridiculous behaviour.

    lock her up, and ban her from driving forever.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,274 ✭✭✭downtheroad


    Driving ban for life and a long custodial sentence are the least she should face. I'd go further and say she is not fit to be a mother to her children and remove them from her care, if this is the example she will set for them.

    Anyone saying that she shouldn't face appropriate punishment by virtue of having kids needs to take a long look at themselves. Would you say that if she gets back behind the wheel of her car after a few drinks and knocks your child off their bike, dismembes them and ruins their life forever?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,260 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    She is unlikely to get custodial for a non-violent offence. A father on the other hand may face jail. That's how it goes. Fair play to the partner that high tailed her to the station (according to media report anyway).

    Leaving the scene makes it harder to get a drink conviction as alcohol can be consumed afterwards breaking the chain of evidence. Perverting the course of justice may be what she will face which could be a harsher outcome for her. She may have been better off staying at the scene as it would only be a Road Traffic conviction that could be brought. (edit: and of course should have done so)

    I would have no sympathy with her being a mother. It could have been a mother she hit or killed, and that mothers partner/ family would have to find a way to bring up the kids without their mother. A temporary stint in jail seems less harsh on kids. Justice needs to be fair, but not too consiliatory.

    Non-custodial for things like this sends the wrong message. In USA there was a recent case where an Irish guy killed someone while off his head on alcohol and got at least 15yrs (after guilty plea). That won't happen here: community service, suspended sentences and bans that are ignored by many are the norm. No wonder many deem roads unsafe for cycling. It's been a free for all on them for way to long.

    Post edited by Kaisr Sose on


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,167 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i don't think the US serves as a decent example of sensible sentencing though. they imprison people at a rate unmatched in any other criminal justice system in the world (not counting despotic regimes, though that probably doesn't count as 'criminal justice')



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,260 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,832 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    To be honest, countless studies and reports over the years have proven the ineffectiveness of incarceration for most criminal offences. However society, as evidenced by a lot of posts in this thread, just wants its pound of flesh so it can forget and move on. There's no real empathy for the victim, otherwise our roads wouldn't be such a clusterf**k every time you venture out on them. You could do a vox pop of drivers and they'd all be up for flogging the driver in this case... and then half of them would carry on their journeys, meeting out close passes, breaking the speed limit, running red lights, skimming hedges on country roads, checking their phones in traffic. But as long as the lynch mob is satisfied, then all is right in the world.

    I have a lot more faith in academics and criminologists who have dedicated careers to evaluating crime, its causes and effective deterrents than a clamour on an internet forum.

    It's a tragic case, caused by the type of scant regard for cyclists which I see every week, and I won't be shedding any tears if the driver is convicted and jailed. But I won't be joining an internet lynch mob either.



  • Registered Users Posts: 373 ✭✭markw7


    Maybe shut your hole in future so, the state of ya



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