Russia - threadbanned users in OP

Dyr · 03-07-2022 02:30PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119282274#Comment_119282274

Thanks for letting me know that you didnt read the article:

"And the Lithuanians even cleared their position with the European Commission – at the technical level, as is now being emphasized. That means that Commission officials had examined the legal situation and determined that Lithuania’s policy was the correct one. EU foreign policy chief Josep Borrell also said that the position of the Lithuanian government was consistent with the sanctions regime."

The EU has reinterpreted its own definitions to kowtow to Berlin and Berlin kowtows to Moscow.

Europe would be more secure without this federalist project hamstringing European nations.

is_that_so · 03-07-2022 02:31PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119284238#Comment_119284238

Well, it is up to you to be adult enough to ignore that kind of stupidity. It comes across as childish score settling otherwise but if that's your thing have at it.

Wibbs · 03-07-2022 02:34PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119284205#Comment_119284205

You're forgetting the jobs and profits to be made by US arms manufacturers replacing and improving that stock. Never mind their armed forces getting better newer stock of materiel. War is profitible, especially if you don't personally have to do the fighting.

And as I said earlier, even if Mother Russia wins this war, nay even if they take the entire country of Ukraine lock stock and barrel, they've lost. Nato's borders have massively expanded, their armed forces seen as remarkably lacklustre and Russia's economy and political standing is forever changed for the forseeable future and not in a good way.

03-07-2022 02:36PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119284245#Comment_119284245

i think you’re referring to someone else’s posts

03-07-2022 02:38PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119284265#Comment_119284265

Russia have absolutely lost strategically. I’ve always drawn the distinction between their tactical wins but strategic losses. They’ll just end up with a largely meaningless tactical gain that Putin will spin back home as a victory, and what he always wanted

TheValeyard · 03-07-2022 02:42PM

If they take Eastern Ukraine, they'll probably end up with another Afghanistan.

dePeatrick · 03-07-2022 02:52PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119284244#Comment_119284244

They may well have made the right decision, this is not the time for knee jerk reactions towards the Russians, any countermeasures against Russia must be carefully thought out before execution. Russia can never be trusted again until a completely new regime takes over and proves itself to be changed. This won’t happen overnight unless there is a revolution so otherwise Russia has completely isolated itself from the west just as during the iron curtain.

Wibbs · 03-07-2022 03:01PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119284362#Comment_119284362

It's actually potentially much worse for Russia compared to the days of the Iron Curtain. Back then it was a command economy with double the population and their vassal states and other friends built on self reliance since the 1920's. Back then virtually nothing in their infrastructure and the daily lives of ordinary Russians was sourced from the West. Today they can't even distribute their new bank notes through their Western built ATMs and that's just the tip of the iceberg.

Polar101 · 03-07-2022 03:03PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119283955#Comment_119283955

The so-called republics (which are only recognised by Russia and Syria) are still a part of Ukraine, even if they are illegally occupied by invaders.

EltonJohn69 · 03-07-2022 03:07PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119284186#Comment_119284186

A tactic that Stalin used was to have machine gunners behind his own army in order to gun down anyone who tried to retreat. He also regularly had many generals executed. So I think a lot of the army knew if they didn’t follow order they would be shot.

If the nazis did defeat the russians would it have been much worse then life in Ukraine at the time where cannibalism was happening as a result of result of Stalin. In fact the Ukrainians welcomed the nazis when the invaded. Stalin would not forget this.

There were some Russian war hero’s but how many ? They have such a brutal history/culture. How many of these war hero’s engaged in war crimes ?

20silkcut · 03-07-2022 03:23PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119284478#Comment_119284478

You’d have to assume that the vast vast majority of Russians are normal everyday people like ourselves otherwise it would be a mad max hell scape of a country. It’s their system of governance and leadership and military doctrine and culture that is brutal.

dePeatrick · 03-07-2022 03:55PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119284427#Comment_119284427

Much much worse, they have gone from having cutting edge tech at the end of WWII ie their tanks, to being three generations behind the US on jet fighters. The Brain drain recently will do nothing to improve this and I don’t see that reversing.

Dyr · 03-07-2022 04:11PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119284362#Comment_119284362

It always impressed me that the Irish Euphile will change his beliefs on the fly to whatever it is that Brussels decided.

If they left Ukraine out to dry altogether you'd be defending them.

zv2 · 03-07-2022 04:13PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119284290#Comment_119284290

If the sanctions stay while Russia occupies Ukraine they will begin to rot behind the new Iron Curtain. Also, Ukraine can start a serious offensive from Kherson if they get the weapons they need. If there is a full on war in the south, UA might win back the south, at least.

EltonJohn69 · 03-07-2022 04:29PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119284578#Comment_119284578

Yes but I do wonder what effect that system has had on people… people spending their whole lives in that system are going to be affected… people are very malleable

Economics101 · 03-07-2022 05:33PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119284244#Comment_119284244

Well, in that case it's not just a case of the EU ordering the Lithuanians what to do, but the Germans apparently "ordering" the EU to tell the Lithuanians what to do. That's just one interpretation of what's happening.

As for you assertion that Europe would be more secure without "this federalist project" hamstringing European nations, the only way small nations can stand up to Russia is through collective action, whether by means of NATO or the EU.

Economics101 · 03-07-2022 05:36PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119284853#Comment_119284853

It's clear from this and your other recent post that your animosity to the EU has clouded your judgement on policy towards Ukraine.

03-07-2022 05:38PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119284993#Comment_119284993

We've seen it. They shrug. It's a deeply ingrained part of the Russian psyche. I could have said this 30 years ago, 50 years ago, 100 years ago and it would still apply.

20silkcut · 03-07-2022 05:41PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119284993#Comment_119284993

Saw a video recently where it was argued that as long as Russians are not mobilised they are happy. They have outsourced politics to Putin. All they have to do is shut up and get on with their lives. That’s the phase we are currently in. It is more likely that escalation rather than sanctions will stir the Russian people to real action against Putin or a combination of both especially if the escalation is unprovoked.

03-07-2022 06:10PM

Hands up anyone shocked if Russia take “the republics’. No one? Didn’t think so…

Now, those that are breathless that it can soon come about… do you seriously think they’ll hold it?

Russia is heading for North Korea with Nukes. The war isn’t nearly over yet… so do try to keep it in your pants.

fly_agaric · 03-07-2022 06:18PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119284244#Comment_119284244

Your quote didn't quite give the whole story there either. So yep people should read articles.

On the other hand, the issue of Kaliningrad was briefly addressed in March at a meeting of EU ambassadors focused on the fourth package of sanctions. The group was not of the opinion that transport between Russia and its exclave was affected by the sanctions.

That statement makes it sound effect on Kaliningrad of the new EU sanctions wasn't fully considered at a political level (even if Lithuania's implemetation was correct). The sanctions involve all member states + need unanimity so Germany and others have a right to an opinion on it IMO.

However I don't think the EU should have softened its position. Russia throw out all these insane threats since the invasion whenever they are not getting their own way. They should be on ignore. Kaliningrad was not being "blockaded" here I think, just a bit more awkward (slower, more expensive) for Russia to get some stuff into it.

nigeldaniel · 03-07-2022 06:27PM

https://www.foxnews.com/world/ukrainian-missile-strike-kills-three-russia-kremlin-claims

Hard to know what to make of this. Could well be a result of a friendly fire incident. Especially now that Russia is using very old and undependable missiles from a bygone era. If the guidance system goes haywire who knows where the missile would end up.

rogber · 03-07-2022 06:29PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119284219#Comment_119284219

Because for a long time, whenever we pointed out that this war might not have the rosy ending many here were predicting in mid April, we were called Putin bots, Russia lovers and many other stupid names by a hardcore group that refused to even contemplate other points of view. It drove many people away from this thread completely and it's perfectly reasonable to call that group of people out for their constant pile ons. Almost all of us support Ukraine here but there has to be room for different view points without immediately being attacked.

rogber · 03-07-2022 06:36PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119284478#Comment_119284478

The fact that Soviet citizens were "forced" to fight doesn't make their heroic resistance any less valid, no more than Ukrainian resistance now, when men aren't allowed leave the country.

As for the raping and war crimes: yeah, shameful stuff, but a bit like the firebombing of German cities by the allies, none of it would have happened if the Germans hadn't done worse and done it first. Vengeance was ugly but understandable under the circumstances.

As I said, the horrors of Stalinism do not cancel out the heroic resistance of Soviet citizens to Nazism

zv2 · 03-07-2022 06:48PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119285650#Comment_119285650

True. I got a lot of stick for being 'zv2' when all people have to do is look at the date I joined. I got my Z long before Putin did. I got mislead by a dodgy link recently and suddenly I was on Putin's side.

Strazdas · 03-07-2022 06:57PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119285481#Comment_119285481

Yes indeed, I have heard this explanation - that they are told that politics and the running of the country by Putin is nothing whatsoever to do with them and they have no say or input.

It's a quite extraordinary state of affairs though. They are living like serfs in the 1700s under the Tsar. It's not a million miles away from George Orwell's '1984' either, where all 'citizens' are just cogs in the wheel, Big Brother makes all the decisions and whatever he says is right and correct at all times.

Stewball · 03-07-2022 07:22PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119284442#Comment_119284442

They're as much part of the ukraine as the Crimea has been for the last 8 years. Russia won't give them up & the ukraine aren't capable of getting them back.

I suspect when the Donetsk Republic is fully under Russian control there'll be referendums in both to join the Russian Federation.

03-07-2022 07:54PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119285650#Comment_119285650

Problem is that this war is far from not over yet,and Ukraine havent even started their offensive push towards Russia yet.

Russia only have the advantage of 5-1 in manpower and 20-1 in artillery at the moment,but this could change.

You dont win wars by capturing and leveling cities,you win wars by defeating your enemy

Wibbs · 03-07-2022 08:12PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119285765#Comment_119285765

They are living like serfs in the 1700s under the Tsar. It's not a million miles away from George Orwell's '1984' either, where all 'citizens' are just cogs in the wheel, Big Brother makes all the decisions and whatever he says is right and correct at all times.

Having known a few Russians over the years it's pretty much nothing like how you paint it. It's also a huge country with a few "Russias" in the mix. A middle class Muscovite is very different to a working class person in Nowheragrod and has different experiences. Like pretty much anywhere else your average person is not in the mix nor the sights of the State, or at least not that much more than we are here. There can also be robust private political debate. That seems to be the big difference. We're more quick to call out ballsology about politicians and freer to do so. More, we're a lot more free to call out our own nation's failings and holes in national and cultural naratives. Though that wasn't always the case. QV when Ireland was as much ruled by the Vatican as the Dail in many ways. Dissenting voices were rare enough. Then again dissenting voices against the cultural narrative are rare enough anyway, or at least a minority.

Put it another way: If this was Boards.ru and we were having debates about what we thought the West was like going by our media and prejudices, many would be quite convinced that the West was full of people who are corporate drone racists who hate Russians, afraid to speak out about and against I dunno The Gay Agenda(tm) and gender(putin has become obsessed with that stuff in his rantings of late), that we're all in debt and decadent and losing our way. Yet outside twitter and the like the average person has the same average person concerns and hopes of the average Russian for the most part. It doesn't take much or many people in any society to drive a percieved narrative of that society to outsiders while the rest of that society just trundles along 9-5, paying bills, raising families and doing average things. The vast majority of people in any society generally agree, or agree to tolerate what the society says and keep their heads down for the most part.

rogber · 03-07-2022 08:31PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119285998#Comment_119285998

I don't share your optimism, but I do take your point. But the main thing is you and I might disagree but we do so civilly and without hurling abuse at each other. That's all I was saying to the other poster.

Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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