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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    I never attempted to make them responsible for the actions of others, merely posing the question where are they in the midst of all this? Electric Sheep would have it that they want peace and all they will ever want is peace.

    Peace is easily achieved in this war, but Russians in diaspora and on the home-front have a job to do if they want it. And you know what that is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,369 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    The first meaningful financial effect of this war has hit me today. I am in this multi month negotiation with my employer for a large increase in pay. The latest they come out with, " well we had to move about 20 Russian developers to Australia and elsewhere and pay hundreds of thousands in visas relocation etc, so we are a bit tight at the moment.....the Russian brain drain is back in full swing. These are guys on 200-500k, maybe one or two on 1m+



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,139 ✭✭✭thomil


    More than likely. Missile and/or technicians not properly grounded whilst working on the electronics, a short circuit in a bit of testing gear, the explosives crystalizing and becoming extremely sensitive to shocks and jolts, there's a cornucopia of things that could go wrong.

    Then again, the Google Maps images show that at least some of the infrastructure at the depot was recently built and/or modernized. Loads of earthworks visible throughout the entire site, including what looks like the entire perimeter fence, newly ballasted railway tracks and several warehouses look like they're under construction. You'd think they'd double check any ammunition before moving them into such a new or modernized facility.

    Good luck trying to figure me out. I haven't managed that myself yet!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,687 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    I'd add by the way that they are very quiet even on social media.

    There are legions and legions of psycho Putin bots cheering on the war and justifying all the atrocities, but surprisingly few Russian citizens abroad attacking the regime. I've seen the odd one here and there, but not vast numbers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 97 ✭✭ZenNature


    " Peace is easily achieved in this war ... "

    How do you see that happening ? Whats your definition of easy .



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,521 ✭✭✭zv2


    KidSoldiers.jpg

    lol

    It looks like history is starting up again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Your lot you're cheerleading f*cking off home on tank treads instead of in boxes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,521 ✭✭✭zv2


    Right-click on the page and select 'translate to English'

    It looks like history is starting up again.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,288 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    The "feint" thing is very much a part of internal Russian dogma now. Not unlike how they paint Comrade Stalin's "masterful" tactics when he dealt with the Germans back in the day. Essentially he let them in so he could encircle them. Total bollocks of course.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • Posts: 10,222 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    And "they" are probably where I am. Getting on with their lives without feeling some sort of collective guilt or responsibility to protest in the way that you'd like them to.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 66 ✭✭electric_sleep


    The internal conflict has been simmering in Ukraine for decades actually, becoming a ‘hot’ conflict from 2014. The proxy war element is Russia and the USA who’ve been aiding different sides of this conflict.

    The Russian invasion is connected to it (not justifying it at all but that’s the way Russia is spinning it). Who do you think the so called LPR/DPR are? They’re Ukrainians armed by Russia.

    Russia won’t leave without a chunk of Ukraine and concessions, and unless western boots are on the ground they’ve got the upper hand. Recognising that parts of East Ukraine are pro Russian is going to be necessary when it comes to drawing up a treaty or this conflict will just repeat itself down the road.

    You would think the Irish, of all people would get this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 97 ✭✭ZenNature


    Well you can call it 'total bollocks' but the fact remains 100,000 Ukrainian troops stayed in Kiev, most of them are still there and meanwhile Russia is making advances in the East. There is only one nation in this fight who is gaining ground.

    It might have been intentional, or just happenstance, either way if Russia had not attacked Kiev, then 100k more Ukrainian soldiers with be in their eastern regions and Russia would be going backwards but they are not.

    I dont think its much use to bury your heads in the sand and pretend they arent making inroads and pinning down Ukrainian resources in Kyiv.

    Its not the outcome Id hope for the Ukrainains, but no matter how much you would like it not to be true, unfortunately it is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 97 ✭✭ZenNature


    So your solution is something thats not going to happen , so its just wishful thinking really.

    Ive not cheer leaded anyone. Just pointing out some realities and facts.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Conspiracy theorizing. Who were your mysterious US proxies in 2014 fighting the explicit Russian generated and sponsored puppet armies? The sovereign state of Ukraine?

    You'd be as well to admit at this stage that you're merely a Putin flunkie. This "I want peace" bullsh*t while parroting known Russian government lies really isn't washing with anyone.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 160 ✭✭Niall145


    'Ukraine is having a civil war' lol, yeah they probably bombed their own shopping centre too; he is pro-Putin scum, end of story



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 66 ✭✭electric_sleep


    Er, the ‘West’ has been arming and training the Ukrainian military, including the militias of dubious political persuasions to fight Russian backed Ukrainian separatists for years. There has been war in Ukraine for years.


    Literally both a civil war and proxy war. Many thousands of people killed. This has all been documented and widely reported since 2014, not sure how you’ve missed it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Look at Nostradamus here gracing us with his presence.

    I'll tell you one thing you can take to the bank. I hope the Russian Ministry of Defence has their order for coffins and body bags put in.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,659 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Yes it is but I cannot see this war ending for many years if it ever really 'ends'. Russia won't take Kiev or Western Ukraine but they also will never leave their occupied territories in the east/southeast. We may see a decrease in direct hostilities but it will continue to simmer and Russian will probably keep annexing land given half the chance. Rinse and repeat 2014. The Ukrainian economy will continue to be destroyed by the chaos and loss of industrial capacity. It's a very bleak outlook really.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Putinist garbage.

    That's a sovereign state deciding its own security arrangements. A fundamental of the international world order and the Budapest memorandum to which Russia is a signatory.

    What's more there's no evidence in the wide world that the US or any other Western country had any hand act or part with Ukrainian militias. That's something you concocted yourself.

    Arming and stoking separatists is proxy warfare.

    Why don't you just admit you're a Kremlin flunkie and be done with it?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 97 ✭✭ZenNature


    Im sure they do. But it doesnt change the reality , the Ukrainian Ministry is also in the market for coffins and body bags for its brave soldiers.

    So you may feel better ranting at Russia, but its not changing anything and its not reflecting that Ukraine is losing this war, Russia economy has pivoted east, many nations are lining up to trade with them, and come winter a lot of the virtue signaling and sanctions in the west will be put to a real test, a test they may not survive.

    I wish that Russia was not winning and the Putin regime were changed, but I dont think ignoring reality will get either of those things done.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 97 ✭✭ZenNature


    E.U. nations have paid about $33 billion for Moscow’s oil since Mr. Putin started the war on Feb. 24, according to the Centre for Research on Energy and Clean Air, a Finland-based nongovernmental organization. And the International Energy Agency said in May that Russia’s oil revenue had actually grown 50 percent since Jan. 1 — to $20 billion a month. Russia has shipped crude to China and India at distress-sale prices but in larger volumes. Some of it is being refined and reexported to Europe.

    Washington Post Article. (RUSSIAS OIL EXPORTS ARE BOOMING - THE US AND EUROPE NEED A NEW PLAN extract above)

    Indias Russian oil imports (seaborne) have jumped 50 times, going from 0.2 to 10% of all their imports, and will continue to rise. India is the worlds third largest consumer of oil, they are a huge market and growing imports faster than the EU is shutting down its imports. India will happily take Russian oil if they are getting it a discounted price and can refine it and sell it to the EU. And many other nations are doing the same thing.

    You may not like the FACTS , but RUSSIA is coining it in the oil export market at the moment.

    As to pipelines Russia already has gas pipelines to China in their Far East region and power of Siberia pipelines. Yes they will have to add new oil pipelines which will take time, just as it will take time for the EU to build their pipelines to replace Russia oil/gas.

    Since breakfast time the EU has sent Russia close on 1/2 a billion Euros.

    Wait until winter and oil and gas have gotten even more expensive, you may not like it but Putins regime will be making even more money.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,521 ✭✭✭zv2


    Gaining a little ground is not such a big deal. The ones with most ammo + weapons will win this war.

    It looks like history is starting up again.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,288 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    It was almost entirely happenstance. They wanted to take Kyiv and topple the government and install their puppet. That was abundantly clear. They threw the kitchen sink at it, only later learning from that and regrouping and pushing east. How many generals have they replaced now and by their own reports? You don't do that if that's the plan all along. You don't have to do that.

    As for inroads, what has long surprised me is that Russia, who overwhelm Ukrainian forces on paper and reality(though a few don't like that reality) are taking so long, fighting yard by yard in remarkably slow progress. Imagine we swapped out the Russians for Americans. I would bet the farm Kyiv would have fallen within the first month. In the first days Ukrainian comms including mobile and web coverage would be toast, they'd almost certainly have tracked Zelensky and his movers and shakers and would have had near total air superiority and drones flown by a 21 year old in a portacabin in Nevada would be having a firework party with anything bigger than a family car.

    On the foreign power front there was certainly far more Russian involvement, but if you don't believe there were proxies and "observers" on both sides in the Donbas civil war and Ukraine as a whole, I've some magic beans to sell you. However I really don't think the Americans thought it was the sore point and tinderbox it turned out to be.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,890 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl



    A) Russian forces were also focused around Kyiv. They had to redirect them around to the Donbas to concentrate enough forces for their meagre gains which took time. The Donbas offensive proper did not start until after the withdrawl from around Kyiv which would make it a pretty terrible feint.

    B) Ukraine is making ground near Kherson and has pushed back Russia around Kharkiv so there is not "only one nation gaining ground"

    C) Russia are making painfully slow progress in their assault and can not keep it up indefinitely.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 97 ✭✭ZenNature


    " Imagine we swapped out the Russians for Americans.  " Its all wishfull thinking and imagination here.

    Ukraine had a standing army (including reserves) not that far off the Russian army and Ukraine has barred all males 18-60 from leaving. Plus Ukraine is receiving arms from 30+ nations. Yet on the battle field they are not making progress. Maybe someone needs to face up to that and figure out why and fix it.

    Urban warfare , building by building, block by block , street by street is notoriously slow. You can imagine all you want about the remote drone pilot eating pringles shooting down missiles but this isnt the new Top Gun movie, the REALITY is Russia is the only side making advances.

    Sooner people face FACTs sooner issues get resolved.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 97 ✭✭ZenNature


    I agree gaining a little ground is not a big deal...

    But the FACT is Russia now holds about 20% of Ukraine . 20% is not a little ground.

    "The ones with most ammo + weapons will win the war " .... said the US 4-star General on the day of the Afghanistan invasion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,643 ✭✭✭rogber


    Well said. I personally know Russians who've hosted or are hosting Ukrainian refugees - in one case for three months, paying for all food and upkeep so the Ukrainian can send their state benefits to relatives back home - or are helping in other ways far more specific and useful than the usual suspects posting their pathetic rants here 40-50 times a day and clearly getting their proxy thrills from this war.

    In fairness, the Russians in question are appalled at the level of brainwashing even among their compatriots abroad, but as always, there are good and bad. A distinction that's clearly too complex for some posters here to make.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,288 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    And the G7 boyos are talking about a cap on all Russian oil prices, which will further squeeze them. In the long term whatever happens Europe and a host of others won't touch Russian gas and oil with a bargepole if they can help it. He'll have to build pipelines to China and India and do it without any Western tech and help.

    The ruble being so strong is another indicator that all is not well in the Russian economy. It's demonstrating that there is no demand for foreign currency in Russia. That's really bad news for any economy in the medium and long term. And that's before we consider Erdogan has removed his objections to Finland and Sweden joining NATO. He's openly putting his lot in with the EU and NATO and in general him and Turkey histroically have played both sides and none.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,890 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Yet on the battle field they are not making progress. Maybe someone needs to face up to that and figure out why and fix it.

    Russia has a massive advantage in particular in artillery, and at least in the beginning in armoured forces in general. They have managed to spectacularly waste the latter, but the former is still formidable. Current deliveries into Ukraine of western artillery systems should hopefully help address the imbalance.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,847 ✭✭✭Nermal


    Looking forward to the G7 publishing details of how they will enforce a 'price cap' on transactions they're not actually party to.



This discussion has been closed.
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