Russia - threadbanned users in OP

Wibbs · 28-06-2022 05:21PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119262939#Comment_119262939

Well we can put that in the large pile of Russian bullshít along with we invaded because Ukraine were going to cleanse the Donbas that week, they had biological weapons of mass destruction(always go with the classics) they were joining nato, there were French army guys in Mariupol, we killed fifty Ukrainian generals in an airstrike(that went off the radar fast) and so on.

timmyntc · 28-06-2022 05:24PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119262916#Comment_119262916

Things may well change - G7 announcing a price cap on russian oil, but have no other oil to replace it worldwide.

OPEC announced they cannot even hit their current production targets, never mind increase. Libya look to stop exporting oil, Ecuador set to curtail production etc.

The oil sanctions hurt everyone else more than they hurt Russia, and the crippling energy and oil shortages we are likely to experience as a result will make escalation of the conflict more likely. a NATO v Russia confrontation becomes more likely as the self-inflicted energy shortages begin to bite.

Wibbs · 28-06-2022 05:25PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119262946#Comment_119262946

Nope. I'm not "splitting the difference" here. Only someone drinking the koolaid of either side would say that. The fact I have to keep repeating the Russians are the major dicks in this and in an ideal world I'd drive them back to Moscow backs that up. I am fully pro Ukraine and fully anti Russian aggression in this. Your viewpoint is 100% polarised and any deviation from that you see as a threat to that narrative. Not just you of course and there are way worse on this score and have been from the start.

28-06-2022 05:39PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119263011#Comment_119263011

He comes across as unhinged, to be frank. I made it through two pages and he's already called people "losers", "shills", "Putinbots" etc. As you say, anybody with a view even slightly different to his own is unacceptable. He also calls others "propagandists", whilst posting the likes of this himself:

"If you care for your family in Russia, tell the young men to run from the conscription enforcers that are coming to the streets. They will be carrion for Ukrainian crows. They will find their eternal rest underneath the frozen Ukrainian groud. Not even a cross to mark their grave."

🤣

Also, isn't accusing posters of being a re-reg not against forum rules?

Ridiculous carry-on. Complete lack of self-awareness.

Yurt2 · 28-06-2022 05:39PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119263011#Comment_119263011

Regrettable that you feel that way about my viewpoint, but I don't think it should be lost on you that the poster you were replying to is pushing basic falsehoods and is tripping the light fantastic about coups, NED conspiracy theories, John Kerry and Banderas.

If you close your eyes and say all that stuff out loud, you're reading from a TASS or RT press release, and I don't think you should be fooled that you're dealing with someone who wants anything other than "peace" on Kremlin terms.

If that makes me 'polarised', so be it. But really, I'm calling bullsh*t on a poster who is posing as something as he's not.

I'll throw my anchor down on this point, I believe I'm 100 percent correct on this point. Anyone prattling on about Banderas instead of being alarmed at the increasingly brutality of Russia's actions is not on the level.

There's another flavour of Kool-aid you could fall victim to drinking yourself.

hairymaryberry · 28-06-2022 05:47PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119261002#Comment_119261002

The same intel that has been telling us Russian is running out of munitions since about 2 weeks into the war?

Any way some military analysis ran the numbers, Russia is firing an astonishing amount of artillery shells per weeks, the same rate that would deplete the US stores of shells in 10days, and if they even reduced the fire rate by 50% the UK could keep up for 8 days, this does not include the artillery of the donetsk and luhansk forces who are supplied by Russia.

All these western estimates are based on what’s stored in western arsenals, they have zero clue what the Russians have in storage, and that’s why they have been so wrong since day one, now factor in that Russia has committed only 200k troops and is holding back their latest weapons in case NATO does get involved, there simply is Zero chance of a Ukrainian victory, the longer the EU/US prolong this war the greater a disaster it becomes for the Ukrainian people.

The Ukrainian men who are been press ganged into service are going to be slaughtered fighting a professional force, we can see that already, it will only get worse and you are calling for more of it , disgraceful!

electric_sleep · 28-06-2022 05:55PM

I got my John Kerry's and my John McCains mixed up (it was 8 years ago)

Here is McCain at the protest that went on to oust the Ukrainian government, saying America is with you. Just imagine for a moment if a Russian senator gave a speech at the Jan 6 insurrection in the USA saying Russia is with you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93eyhO8VTdg&ab_channel=TheGuardian

Report on the far right in 2014

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SBo0akeDMY&ab_channel=BBCNewsnight

Far right shutting down TV station in 2014 -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5GeBpZ5VHY&ab_channel=euronews

Svoboda wins 12% if seats in parliament in 2012 -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTjezCzo-BQ&ab_channel=JewishNewsOne

Far right burns pro russian protesters inside trade building 2014-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEWUADkyIiA&ab_channel=euronews

2014, March for Stepan Bandera. (SS Nazi who's moment participated in the holocaust, gassing 70k Poles and Jews)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8SGc0cZiag&ab_channel=euronews

Ukrainian military opens fire o Ukrainian civilians celebrating Russias victory day in Mariupol 2014

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1E18Jw0t5Cg&ab_channel=GrahamPhillips

Does this reflect your average Ukrainian on the street? No of course not. But are there other factors that led to this war? Absolutely.

Yurt2 · 28-06-2022 06:05PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119263077#Comment_119263077

It's a fact. If he cares for these young Russian men, he should tell them to go on the lamb from the conscription office. The only thing will happen is they'll end up maimed or as wormfood for nothing.

Ukrainian men are fighting for the survival of their country. They will be honoured and remembered for hundreds of years.

Russians if they are recalled at all as bandits, thieves and criminals.

zv2 · 28-06-2022 06:06PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119262881#Comment_119262881

Putin does not care one jot for the Russian speaking separatists. If he did he would not be blowing them to pieces. They were used as an excuse for a war of conquest. Separatism is a dangerous thing.

zv2 · 28-06-2022 06:08PM

I don't like the sound of this

https://twitter.com/CanadianUkrain1/status/1541830617255526400?s=20&t=cbP-3WbpxNtdVEOaGJ_A5g

Ten of Swords · 28-06-2022 06:13PM

@hairymaryberry do not post in this thread again

odyssey06 · 28-06-2022 06:13PM

McCain went there to bring the world's attention to it, so that the government would think twice about using violence against the protestors.

A democratically elected senator attending a peaceful protest.

“What we're trying to do is try to bring about a peaceful transition here, that would stop the violence and give the Ukrainian people what they unfortunately have not had, with different revolutions that have taken place – a real society. This is a grassroots revolution here – it's been peaceful except when the government tried to crack down on them, and the government hasn't tried that since. I'm praising their ability and their desire to demonstrate peacefully for change that I think they deserve.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/15/john-mccain-ukraine-protests-support-just-cause

“We are here,” said Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), “to support your just cause: the sovereign right to determine [Ukraine’s] own destiny freely and independently. And the destiny you seek lies in Europe.”

They (both US and European politicians but none in official capacities) were there to support Ukraine's right to determine its own destiny.

Meanwhile Russia was declaring economic war on Ukraine for daring to sign a trade deal with the EU.

The EU trade deal, the removal of the President, represented the democratic will of the Ukranian people and parliament. It was not some minority, violent far right coup. The regime no longer had any mandate from the people to govern, because of their blocking of the trade deal and their crackdown on the protestors.

This was a protest with large, diverse, and widespread approval across Ukrainian society. A minority far right coup does not get hundreds of thousands of people onto the streets.

Ukraine uprising was no neo-Nazi power-grab

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/13/ukraine-uprising-fascist-coup-grassroots-movement

odyssey06 · 28-06-2022 06:25PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119263140#Comment_119263140

You neglected to mention what else happened in Mariupol on Victory Day 2014? You didn't think that was relevant or were just attempting to deceive?

The shootings had nothing to do with this?

'Civilians' with guns attempting to storm police station.

Is the a traditional Victory Day celebration?

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ukraine-crisis/russias-victory-day-takes-deadly-turn-ukrainian-city-mariupol-n101176

Podge_irl · 28-06-2022 06:26PM

But are there other factors that led to this war? Absolutely.

These events had nothing to do with leading to the war, bar being potentially convenient excuses. They are failures of the Ukrainian state, a state that is still coming to terms with independence after brutal repression and rampant corruption within the USSR. The attempts to correct these failures is what angers the Russians so much.

electric_sleep · 28-06-2022 06:27PM

The US doesn’t get to say when a protest becomes a legitimate revolution against a democratically elected government regardless of how much they’d like to see the current one go.

Nor does Russia for that matter.

The above videos were to back up points I made earlier where I was called a liar for saying the Americans were speaking at the maidan coup, and for saying that pro Russian Ukrainians were burned alive in Odessa by the far right, or that the new Ukraine began persecuting Russian- Ukrainians.

Calling out Kiev for its sins doesn’t absolve Russia, but let’s stop pretending Kiev is some paragon of progressive democracy.

Wibbs · 28-06-2022 06:31PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119263111#Comment_119263111

I'd be willing to bet the military analysts are Russian. The Russian media and supporters are also big on claiming Russia is keeping her "latest weapons" wunderwaffen as it were in reserve. And for such a "professional force" ranged against "press ganged" amateurs they failed utterly miserably to take Kyiv after throwing the kitchen sink in the attempt. They couldn't even secure an airfield with the best of their commando and special forces. And in the East closest to supply lines and with more on the ground support and an environment much better suited to their warfare and in summer they're advancing extremely slowly. Their great victory over Sievierodonetsk, a town of 100,000(or used to be) took over a month and they had to grind it into rubble to do it. How does all that work with professional soldiers and according to your "estimates" three times the amount of the US' entire stock of artillery in play?

Strazdas · 28-06-2022 06:33PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119263255#Comment_119263255

Most of the talking points you are giving here have come straight from Putin and the Kremlin. "Eight years of genocide in the Donbas region", Nazis in the Ukrainian government, oppression of Russian citizens in Ukraine....it's all Putin's words.

Macron says in his final conversation with the dictator before the invasion, Putin was ranting and raving for ages about Donbas and Ukrainian "atrocities" and that he couldn't get him off the subject.

rogber · 28-06-2022 06:44PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119262290#Comment_119262290

This is Boris Johnson we're talking about. Unlikely that's what motivates him

Fighting Tao · 28-06-2022 06:51PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119263326#Comment_119263326

You never know. There is strong evil coming from the Kremlin. It stirs people, even those as self serving as Boris.

electric_sleep · 28-06-2022 06:54PM

@Starzdaz

This is all from western media and my own opinions based on what I’ve witnessed unfold , and all videos posted bar one were mainstream media. Just cause Putin uses certain factors like the far right, or Ukraine’s persecution of ethnic Russians to attempt to justify his actions doesn’t make them untrue and it’s a disservice the thousands of people who’ve lost family members, and thousands of dead Ukrainians who died at the hands of Ukraine to say so.

The dangerous thing about propaganda is that it contains elements of truth.

Yes it’s nice to think in black and white terms but the world doesn’t work like that, black and white thinking and drinking the cool aid is what gets people pulled into wars.

Podge_irl · 28-06-2022 07:12PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119263111#Comment_119263111

Russia is firing an astonishing amount of artillery shells per weeks, the same rate that would deplete the US stores of shells in 10days, and if they even reduced the fire rate by 50% the UK could keep up for 8 days,

This appears to be implying the UK has 40% of the artillery ammunition of the US which is fairly laughable.

Also "only" 200k troops is more or less their entire professional army.

zv2 · 28-06-2022 07:12PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119263359#Comment_119263359

The blackest white in all this is that Putin wanted a war and used the situation to cynically blame everyone but himself.

Yurt2 · 28-06-2022 07:17PM

"Persecution of ethnic Russians"

The last time I was in Kyiv, the language on the streets and bars was easily 60 percent Russian if not more. The population of Kyiv itself is probably 1 in 5 ethnic Russian. No one bats an eyelid, no one cares.

Absolute grade-A nonsense. You're talking about a Ukraine that only exists in the mind of Russian nationalists, disseminated by ethno-expansionists in high-office in Moscow.

There's only you sucking on the Kool-Aid here.

FYI, those "pro-Russians" in Odessa were hired goons bussed by extremely shady elements - they attacked Ukrainian football hooligans and shot one of them dead at the height of the Crimean tension. The incident in the union building was tragic, but they came for trouble and got it.

You're dancing like a puppet on the string of people that would have you at the bottom the Moskva river if you crossed them.

I know it, you secretly know it. So cut the bullsh*t and admit it.

fly_agaric · 28-06-2022 07:18PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119263275#Comment_119263275

They could be referring to this (depressing article about need for US/West to increase its arms/ammunition production + expand its industrial base to get ready for future wars) which I read a few days ago (?) Was thinking of posting it before, so may as well now.

I cannot vouch for accuracy of it.

https://rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/commentary/return-industrial-warfare

In short, US annual artillery production would at best only last for 10 days to two weeks of combat in Ukraine. If the initial estimate of Russian shells fired is over by 50%, it would only extend the artillery supplied for three weeks.

So not that it would deplete "US stores" in 10 days as per poster, but it would use up a whole years' peace-time production run in about 10 days which is still massive.

Russia does seem to have vasts amounts of Cold war (?) era artillery and shells.

Going beyond my ken again talking military things, but guessing maybe unlike the Western countries, they put all that huge Soviet arsenal for waging WW3 in Western Europe into mothballs, and they have pulled it out now from all over Russia, checked it over, and sent it West to devastate Eastern Ukraine for Putin's vanity & lethal ego trip. Alot of it probably works okay to blow stuff up and kill people, even if its old and not as good as what the West/NATO armies might have.

odyssey06 · 28-06-2022 07:27PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119263255#Comment_119263255

The Ukrainian people have that say, and that is the right John McCain was there to support. To bring the world's attention on what was happening in Ukraine so that the regime knew cameras were on them.

So the "US" did not. In 2014 John Kerry was Secretary of State. So if you said John Kerry was there and saying X that is very different to John McCain. Who are "The Americans"? It's not just a case of mixing up names. The roles matter. John McCain had no executive role in the US administration in 2014.

You keep running away from the evidence that there was widespread diverse and majority support in Ukraine for the trade deal, for protests, and for the removal, by parliament, of the President and his administration. It was not some US backed far right minority coup and it is spreading a lie to present it in that manner. John McCain spoke to hundreds of thousands of protestors who had already taken to the streets, he didn't magic them up out of thin air.

You keep running away from the question of why the President didn't sign the trade deal with the EU.

Just because a president is democratically elected, doesn't mean he gets to rule as an autocrat. The president made himself illegitimate by his actions.

You're not calling out Ukraine for its sins. You are tarnishing Ukranian democracy with an original sin which you have fabricated.

Ukraine is a progressive democracy. It is a democracy that is progressing in the direction of the EU, of human rights, of basic freedoms, away from the orbit of Russian gangster corruption and fascist dictatorship. It can only do that free of Russian dominance and subversion, of the type of subversion Russia attempted in Donbas, illegally sending in troops and Ukraine had to respond to with force. In that fight it does not have clean hands, but it is only in that fight because of Russia's illegal actions in the region. Zelensky is a Russian speaker, as are others in his administration. This is not some persecution or genocide of Russian speakers, but an attempt to defend Ukrainian identity and sovereignty against Russian subversion.

Any moral equivalence of Ukranian democracy, for all its flaws, with Russian gangster fascism is completely without merit or foundation.

You posted complete lies about ethnic cleansing and genocide in Donbas by 'New' Ukraine, parroting Russian propaganda.

https://www.dw.com/en/fact-check-russia-falsely-blames-ukraine-for-starting-war/a-60999948

Yurt2 · 28-06-2022 07:31PM

Well found out as a Putinist doubt-sower and myth-pusher after his last few posts.

"I HAVE MANY UKRAINIAN FRIENDS WHO THINK LIKE GEORGE GALLOWAY RANTING ON RT"

Sure you do champ. The next Baltika is on me.

electric_sleep · 28-06-2022 07:32PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119263082#Comment_119263082

I condemned Russia and spoke about post coup/revolution (delete which one least offends you) Ukraines actions leading up to this war, and mentioned US and Russian influences in Ukrainian unrest since 2014.

I spoke up in favour of a peace treaty, I mentioned the sufferings of the people of Donbas being caught in the middle of all this. I’m clearly not a fan of Kievs decisions since 2014, but that doesn’t make me a Putin bot. There are many factors in this war and just because Putin uses them as starting points for his propaganda doesn’t mean we can’t discuss it.

What is the rule? Once Putin mentions a topic as justification for his invasion we need to instantly dismiss all talk about this topic forever as propaganda? You know how propaganda works right? It’s built on real world events and then blown up/distorted to suit your narrative. It’s not as effective if it’s 100% fiction.

So try to separate out someone mentioning a well known and well documented societal issue in Ukraine, such as the far right role in the 2014 coup/revolution , with someone using this as justification for the invasion. Come on, use that grey matter for something other than graphic descriptions of how Russian soldiers will die in Ukraine.

There are endless posts condemning Russia, the whole western world is doing it, take it as a given that I condemn them too, I just didn’t see the point of going on and on about it in what’s already an echo chamber. Russian invasion = bad! Ok , happy? Sorry if I don’t demonstrate the level of hatred towards Russians in general as you would like me to. And sorry if all of this shakes your world view so much that you have to reach straight for the ‘putinbot’ button rather than actually demonstrating why I’m wrong. Resorting to insulting me because I bring up uncomfortable points is also pretty lame. Have a nice evening.

Yurt2 · 28-06-2022 07:41PM

You'll get your peace when the Russian army is in retreat and tamed in Ukraine and not a minute before. That's what the Ukrainian government and people demand, and that's what the West is arming them to achieve.

The latest wheeze is "peace talks" because the Russian army has been charged with achieving political goals and not military ones in a phase of the war where they know they could crack the Russian state if they start going backwards. That and their at the limits of what they can achieve as a land-grab right now.

Your suckling at the tit of Russian bullsh*t. Sell it to someone who's actually buying. Because very few here are buying it beyond re-regs and political extremists.

If you're trying to convince me or anyone else that you pushing known Kremlin nonsense about coups, NED and Banderites is a mere coincidence, and that in fact your clutching your pearls for Ukraine and just want peace, take it to Hyde Park Speakers Corner. You might get a hearing there.

hairymaryberry · 28-06-2022 07:44PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119263275#Comment_119263275

You would lose that bet

https://rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/commentary/return-industrial-warfare

Anyway it is clear that this thread is populated by those who get there warfare knowledge from COD and Hollywood, eventually reality will catch up with them, until then they can believe Russia is losing.

Russia is operating on a you break it you pay for it basis, the land been fought over now will be Russia when all is said and done, I imagine right up to the Dnieper river and the entire south coast.

The EU is dangling membership in front of the Ukrainian people as a incentive to keep fighting, it will never happen, all that will be left of Ukraine will be a burnt out husk , all the young men dead and all the young women have fled east as refugees to never return, it will be a money pit, the EU will cut them loose and all this war will have been for nothing.

Enjoy your fantasies of putting a beating on Red Ivan, as that’s all it will be, a fantasy.

Sanctions are only hurting the EU, won’t be long before it pushes the more eager for war to look for peace, and never forget only 15% of the world is sanctioning Russia, the rest are getting down to business, in fact countries are apply to join the BRICS.

The world is moving on as the EU/US try to drag Russia into a big war to distract from their failed monetary policies.

The idiots in charge of the EU are sending us down the path to rack and ruin, laugh all you want at me, call me a Putin bot, you won’t be laughing come Autumn.

Yurt2 · 28-06-2022 07:47PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119263584#Comment_119263584

You've been threadbanned. You know where the door is.

And don't bother re-registering either.

Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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