Russia - threadbanned users in OP

How is it in Russia's interest to kill all Ukrainians?

You're forgetting one crucial aspect. The Russian scum invaded a sovereign nation. They and only them are to blame for this. Their soldiers are rapist's and terrorists. The proof is there right before your eyes, you just love Putin so much your blind to it all.

Do you mean victimised like the current president of Ukraine , (who's first language is Russian , ) I'd agree it's been shite for the residents of the donbass and eastern Ukraine (like many economically depressed, industrial and post industrial areas,) ... Especially since 2014 , it's been a war zone since then , then it got worse In February - and it's gotten even worse again since ordinary ethnic Russians/ Russia speakers have been co-opted and force conscripted Into the army by their Russian masters ..

Does Putin want to recognise Ukraine and want to survive as a successful independent state?

No he does not. He has said he doesn't recognise Ukraine as a state so his regime is attempting to kill all things Ukrainian. The history (book burnings), the currency, the future, the people. To expunge Ukraine from the record it is in his interests to kill all Ukrainians unless they accept that they are Russian.

As I understand it, separatism was, for years, stirred up by Russian agents in E. Ukraine and that might explain Ukrainian hostility towards the separatists. (I can understand why they would be hostile if separatists were threatening Ukrainian sovereignty.) Do you have any insight into this? Thanks in advance.

The Ukrainian protests and the coup which PRECEDED the Crimean invasion is a good place to start, but if you want a proper picture you need to look at the various mini uprisings such as the orange revolution and the right wing movements within Ukraine, particularly West Ukraine and how those were nurtured by likes of the NED (USA). Look back at Ukrainian history, and the independence movements and their uncomfortable relationship with the far right.

Ukrainians had a very legitimate protest (Euromaidan) in 2014, against their corrupt pro-Russian puppet president not signing the agreement with the EU. I myself supported the EU agreement and was looking forward to a Western facing Ukraine, when it wasn't signed I was devastated because I hoped it would make it easier for my relatives to come to Ireland. When the protests started I supported them. Unfortunately this movement was hijacked by the far right who threw the government out on its ear and immediately began a pogrom against ethnic Russians in Ukraine, including the Odessa massacre (right wing Ukrainians burnt 48 people alive in the trade union building in Odessa, one of which recorded it on his phone and is now an MP in Ukraine). Crimea would be another Donbas if the Russians had not of annexed it, and people there breathed a sigh of relief when they did (If you are familiar with Ukraine you would know that they jokingly called the right wing groups coming to Crimea to toss out the government 'peace trains')

The pre 2014 Ukrainian government, corrupt or not, was elected. Part of East Ukraine did not want to be ruled by the Banderite's who seized power so formed a rebellion, which Russia was only too happy to oblige having its own imperial motives.

Russia are not innocent in this, and are the aggressors today, but they did not initiate this conflict in Ukraine (referring the 8 year old conflict). The far right in Ukraine has been laying the groundwork for a new Ukraine, free of Russian influence (sounds noble until you realise the mean ethnic cleansing.) the Americans were only too happy to assist, just like they did with the Mujahideen all those years ago. What's bad for Russia is good for the USA.

Russia invaded Crimea as a response to the far right takeover of Ukraine. There is no denying that the coup happened first. If you doubt it was a far right takeover then why did they hang portraits of Stepan Bandera in government buildings when they kicked the old guard out? If you are truly familiar with Ukraine you would know this, you would have seen this or at least been told about it by Ukrainians.

So who is the aggressor here? Russia, Post 2014 Ukraine and the USA. That's who, the lot of them. And who is the victim? every Ukrainian, but particularly East Ukrainians. Ordinary Russians are also victims in this to a much lesser extent, because through no fault of their own they are now international pariahs. This was done to them by Putins regime.

The victims are not being helped as long as we pretend that the Ukrainian government and the far right is clean in this, all facts need to be on the table. The world needs to see the monster that we, the collective 'west' is supporting as well as the monster they are fighting against. There is no 'good' side here. The Ukrainianes are just as vicious as the Russians, and if it was only the Russian military/state they were targeting it would be fair game, but they've been targeting the ethnic Russians (14000 dead before the Russians invaded, mostly on the pro Russian side, killed by the likes of ASOV and the Ukrainian army).

if you have a human bone in your body and care about Ukrainians you would care about the children of Donbas persecuted for the original sin of having Russian ethnicity for 8 years. If you have a human bone in your body you would not support Putins war, nor would you support the Ukrainian army that incorporates far right militants into their army and political system.

Far right isn't just a political tag in this context, it means people who actively engage in ethnic cleansing.

The sooner Putin and Kiev are forced to the bargaining table the better it will be for civilians in Ukraine.

lol 🤣Have to ask....what does the Moscow Midgets coc taste like ? I'd ask Trump but he's banned off twitter

I am talking about an immediate small post-Putin window where they can shove him under the bus and reverse this. That is a get out of jail free card and probably a cynical pragmatic one but whether they'll do it is another question. Inheriting an increasingly impoverished country with an ongoing brain drain may focus those minds a bit.

Video of the missile strike

Looking at the various CCTV videos posted on social media today of the moment of impact, that was a huge blast that hit the shopping mall. Some of these cameras were located 500m away in a park and yet we see loads of debris landing in the lake, the fixed cameras shaking violently and civilians running in terror.

A total war crime to be firing missiles like that into a city in the middle of an afternoon, despite what all the Putin bots (i.e. psychopaths) on social media are saying.

Did you completely miss the entire violent dismantling of the Ukrainian government by far right thugs in 2014? It was televised for weeks, there for all to see. It's still there if you just go and look it up.

No ethnic Russian-Ukrainians were being killed in Donbas because the far right had not yet been allowed to run amok amongst the Russian leaning populace, the previous Ukrainian regime would never have allowed it. The new regime not only allowed it, they armed them, turned over the policing of their cities to them and eventually absorbed them into the regular armed forces. They've only recently gotten them to drop the Swastika's because it looks bad when they're out begging for NATO handouts.

When john Kerry is standing on stage next to Banderite revolutionaries at the protest talking about America supporting their movement, followed by the ousting of the elected government by violent gangs of thugs, that's called a coup.

Russians killed many civilians too, this is not a defense of Russia, it's a condemnation of the Ukrainians war on a section of their own populations, of course I condemn Russias war on Ukraine. But this issue is much more complicated than simply a war of aggression by one nation against another. It's a civil war too and until that factor is addressed and discussed at the international level no peace will be possible.

There was no coup.

Why didn't the Ukranian president sign the EU trade treaty?

Why did huge numbers of people go onto the streets in protest?

The regime collapsed not because of the opposition of the far right but because it has lost the support of the people and parliament.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26468720

There is no 'war' by Ukraine against its own people. There would be no war in Donbas if Russia had not instigated it. And if Russia had not instigated that war, Ukranian government would not have needed to rely on far right support to defend Donbas.

If Ukraine was engaged in a war against its own people in Donbas for years, where is the evidence? There were 3500 civilian casualties in the region 2014-2021 due to the military activity in the area. There is no evidence of a Ukranian war against the civilian population.

The country going around invading and executing civilians and deporting civilians is Russia.

There is only one aggressor here.