Director of Management Company stalling sales

April 2022 · 21-04-2022 10:59pm #1

Hi,

We are currently selling our investment property. The director of the management company has set out to make our sale difficult. He is currently doing the same to another seller in the complex.

He has always been a difficult person to deal with. If there any repairs needed in the complex that should be covered, he tries to bill random owners for the costs. He just sends the demand for money along with the annual fee invoice. If you dispute the bill, you get a nasty letter and another amended higher bill.

He has made our lives torturous over the past three years and we’ve had enough and want out of the place.

Our solicitor is looking for information that was on the MUD documents and he won’t respond.

Our financial well-being and that if our family is dependent on this sale. Our income has reduced considerably since Covid and we are finding things hard, especially with two children to support.

This person does not respond to any solicitor letters or emails.

He has tried extorting money from us and said he will tell the purchaser that we have outstanding debts, which we do not. We have sent our financial statements with all payments to both the company accountant and our solicitor, but this person ignores this and demands money.

We are at our wits end at this stage.

Has anyone ever dealt with any similar issue? Probably not, as no one can believe us when we tell them even a fraction of what has been happening to us over the past three years.

Thanks in advance

21-04-2022 11:16pm

I'd advise you to talk to a solicitor, but you already have one?

April 2022 · 22-04-2022 7:29am

Hi,

Thanks for your reply. Yes, we have a solicitor who has written to him numerous times, but he generally ignores any letters or emails.

He makes up his own rules. He has complete control of the OMC and even takes a salary for himself for doing some cleaning and gardening. He also carries out property services and appears to have no licence to do this.

He terrorised numerous sets of tenants, resulting in them having enough and leaving.

The place cannot be sold as it stands due to the actions of this person.

Mrs OBumble · 22-04-2022 7:42am

Work with the other owners to have him removed?

April 2022 · 22-04-2022 1:03pm

Hi,

We’ve tried that too. There are some older owners who think he’s fantastic and won’t have a bad word said against him.

Like I said, he has taken total control of every aspect of the management company. It is unbelievable that this has been allowed to happen, but it seems nothing can be done.

There are only 50 apartments in the complex, but he’s there in a regular basis with his hoover and lawnmower!

eusap · 22-04-2022 1:30pm

Look up a solicitor who is experienced with dealing with management companies, there are options to Call an EGM and vote for a new board, assuming it is a registered company you can make a complaint to the director of corporate enforcement as he is not keeping up his responsibility as a director. But best leave it to a legal person.

Have you tried contacting him personally and ask the question why he is holding up the sale of the house, or as a third person to do it e.g. estate agent. You would wonder is he doing it on purpose to devalue the property to buy it himself

April 2022 · 22-04-2022 3:25pm

Claw Hammer · 22-04-2022 3:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118960729#Comment_118960729

He is more likely to be looking for a backhander.

Doolittle51 · 22-04-2022 3:56pm

It's easy to ignore letters and emails. If he's around as often as you say, just be a nuisance. Every time you see him, ask him when he's going to send you the documents you need. If it seems like you're annoying, then that's a good sign. Keep doing it and he'll soon realise it's easier to comply.

April 2022 · 22-04-2022 7:54pm

April 2022 · 22-04-2022 7:57pm

Thanks so much for all your comments and suggestions. This person is one of a kind, nobody seems to have come across the likes of him before. We can’t wait to see the back of the place, it literally is an asylum!

antoinolachtnai · 22-04-2022 9:29pm

I am sorry to hear of your troubles. Unfortunately you may well need a different solicitor. This management company and this guy has no right to interfere with your sale. It is going to take an aggressive stance on your solicitor’s part to get him to back down.

JayPS 2288 · 23-04-2022 3:19pm

Do this, OP.

April 2022 · 23-04-2022 10:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118965762#Comment_118965762

I’m a bit slow 🤣What does this mean? 😊

JayPS 2288 · 23-04-2022 10:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118967777#Comment_118967777

put His demand letters straight in the bin 😊😊

macvin · 23-04-2022 11:09pm

ODCE complaint is really the only course of action.

Give him notice that you will be making an official complaint that he his frustrating the rights of members and this is a valid complaint under company legislation to initiate investigation by ODCE.

Let him know that details of the complaint to the ODCE will be circulated to all other owners and you will be requesting an EGM to remove him from the board of directors.

Only aggressive communication like this, ideally from a solicitor, will get action

24-04-2022 8:50am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118967919#Comment_118967919

Did you read/understand the op?

April 2022 · 24-04-2022 10:05am

Ah, ok! Yes, we do this now or rather ignore them. At first, we used to get so upset about them, but not anymore. 😊😊

April 2022 · 24-04-2022 10:06am

He is currently being reported by another owner for giving false information to the CRO

JPup · 25-04-2022 12:59am

ODCE will do nothing in a situation like this. It would need to be some very serious fraud or theft for either ODCE or gardai to get involved.

Does this individual live on site as a matter of interest?

I think the only way you are going to get any joy here realistically is to become a director of the management company yourself.

April 2022 · 25-04-2022 8:30am

No, he did own a property, but sold this year. It isn’t possible to become a director, as he collects proxies before the AGM. It’s closed shop, he controls everything.

It’s so hard to imagine what this place is like if you’re not dealing with this person yourself.

25-04-2022 8:49am

There seems to still be some confusion over the distinction between Management Company and Managing Agent.

Op, the Company is made up of unit owners, you are a member by virtue of owning a unit in a multi unit development, this man, if he sold his property/no longer owns one, he is no longer a member of the management company and should have resigned from the Board. If he is the Managing Agent, he is employed by the Company. He/she is usually a local EA/property management company and can be replaced at the AGM.

I’m afraid this thread is pretty typical of the queries/complaints we received when I was on the Board of a OMC. Owners who didn’t attend AGMs, don’t know what was discussed and what was voted on.

Op, the next AGM, go, stand up and say you are not happy with the Board, managing agent, costs etc. You may find there are like minded owners who will support you, and volunteer to be on the Board.

Caranica · 25-04-2022 8:50am

He can't be a director if he no longer owns a property in the development. He should have resigned once the property was sold as he's no longer a member of the management company. This is one for the ODCE, he needs to be removed ASAP

TheWonderLlama · 25-04-2022 9:03am

Have been through the same thing and now I am a director of the OMc.

The EGM route is the only way to effectively get rid of the director. But you need to be sure of having a majority behind you. Very difficult to engineer. But do get an EGM called to record these grievances and call the vote. Look at the articles of association for the company as to how votes are counted. If he is not a property owner and he cannot vote, he also cannot vote any proxies he has as he ahs no right to attend the meeting. (I could be wrong in this, not a lawyer).

Also, write to the Property Services Regulatory authority.

Check their register first, to ensure the director is not already registered and if not, report him for offering management services without a licence.

It is illegal to provide a property service without a licence and PSPs found to be trading without one are subject to sanction, a fine and/or possible imprisonment. If you think a PSP is providing a property service without a licence you should report this to the PRSA at info@psr.ie.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/owning_a_home/buying_a_home/the_property_services_regulatory_authority.html

That should give him pause for thought.

Heart Break Kid · 26-04-2022 8:55pm

You can have him removed, people forget he works for you.

April 2022 · 29-04-2022 10:32pm

Thank you so much, everyone. We’re hoping our sale goes through and then he will be reported to every body that we might have a case with. That’s for sure. I pity the owners and tenants left there

April 2022 · 10-06-2022 6:26pm

Hi everyone,

Further developments in this nightmare!

This director is charging us €3,500 for charges we do not owe. Our solicitor has tried to get these costs removed, to no avail. The buyers solicitor is appalled at how we are being treated but their hands are tied as they need a balancing statement of zero funds owed.

This director refuses to give us a breakdown of the costs. He has ignored the solicitors request as has the accountant.

Has anyone any idea what we can do. How can we be held to ransom by this thief? He already extorted €3000 from another lady who owed nothing in May. She is bringing him to court.

Can anyone help? We are desperate at this stage to sell financially.

Thanks so much.

is_that_so · 10-06-2022 6:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119185204#Comment_119185204

I think you need to meet him head on at this point and begin to push back. Is there scope in the Articles of Association to call an EGM and then have him removed that way?

If your solicitor is not familiar with how these entities are set up you might ask if they can recommend someone who is or to identify the original solicitors who set it all up. You might also be able to take a run at the accountant as some of the personalised expenditure they have sanctioned seems pretty dubious.

I'd also consider the court route starting with a solicitor's letter in the matter. Ask your solicitor about possible moves here.

Finally, I would suggest you contact the ODCE about his behaviour as a director. Even if they can't or won't do anything they may be able to point you in a suitable direction.

April 2022 · 10-06-2022 7:05pm

Thanks so much for your reply.

He was forced to hold an EGM in May about another case being taken against him! The insurance company insisted on it.

Our solicitor has said to him that we will be pursuing him for all damages. We spoke to the accountant (could be this guys twin) today and it turned into a heated discussion. Basically, he said it’s all nothing to do with him even though he signs off on all accounts.

He is saying we owe €1500 legal fees, €450 audit fees, €400 admin fees amongst others. This is all untrue. We have always paid our management fees in full and more recently gave this person €4,800 for new windows.

The other owner who was charged €3000 fraudulently is going to court. Her solicitor has requested back up information for this alleged amount, but this director has blocked them on the company email and is ignoring solicitor letters.

We have exchanged contracts and are basically waiting for our funds. The purchaser is a government body.

This person listens to know one. He sends you a solicitor’s letter, but then drops the solicitor and charged you for the fee.

There has to be somewhere we can turn. The way things are he could ask for €10,000 and we would have to pay to close the deal. This can’t be right.

Caranica · 10-06-2022 7:07pm

Again, legally he cannot be a director if he's not an owner. Sort that out first, problem solved.

is_that_so · 10-06-2022 7:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119185344#Comment_119185344

We spoke to the accountant (could be this guys twin) today and it turned into a heated discussion. Basically, he said it’s all nothing to do with him even though he signs off on all accounts.

Accountants can't really sign off on what may not be legal behaviour on the part of a company or an individual within a company. You can also report them for such actions or threaten to report them.

April 2022 · 10-06-2022 7:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119185350#Comment_119185350

We have questioned this, but we’re told he can still be a director

carfinder · 10-06-2022 7:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119185428#Comment_119185428

Hi April 2022, if you wish, you can PM me with the name of the management company and I'll review their memorandum and articles i.e. constitution and annual return and let you know what the requirements are for a director in that company

Caranica · 10-06-2022 8:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119185428#Comment_119185428

I think you need a better solicitor

April 2022 · 10-06-2022 8:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119185543#Comment_119185543

Thank you so much, will do that now

April 2022 · 10-06-2022 8:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119185543#Comment_119185543

I’m not sure how this works with messaging. Ms I able to message you even with so little posts?

10-06-2022 8:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119185591#Comment_119185591

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119185350#Comment_119185350

This is incorrect.

”A property owner in an estate with an OMC is automatically made a member of the OMC. Directors of an OMC are usually, but not required to be, members of the OMC.”

https://www.charteredaccountants.ie/docs/default-source/technical-documents/governance/omc-director-governance-guide-may-2021.pdf

carfinder · 10-06-2022 8:53pm

An interesting excerpt from the document link above:

Regulation 18 of the Property Services (Regulation) Act 2011 (Minimum Standards) Regulations 2020 prohibits a property management agent from being a director of an OMC to which the agent provides services, unless the agent is also a property owner in the estate.

i think this is what some posters have alluded to and appears to be relevant to the OP's situation as it appears that the problematic director is a propwrty management agent and a director but not a property owner - a breach of regulation 18

10-06-2022 9:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119185802#Comment_119185802

I agree, the OP needs to clarify if the issue is with a Director or Managing Agent.

I kinda get what you are saying, but I’m not sure it applies here, but I could be wrong because the op seems to be making lots of claims/allegations which appear contradictory. The “Director” in question no longer owns a property, but can still be a Director as Directors are not required to be members. He also can be a managing agent, but not a Director if that is what he is, by virtue of the fact that he is not an owner. Managing Agents are usually estate agents/auctioneers in my experience and are paid by the OMC, whereas Directors are not, but the op said he is not an EA.

So the op is probably receiving good advice from his/her solicitor in relation to the Directors legitimacy and how it relates to the question of ownership.

April 2022 · 10-06-2022 9:41pm

Just to clarify this person has put himself in this position of “power” since 2010. I actually used to think he was a maintenance person!

He has been a director since 2010, an owner since 2007. He sold his property (without any issues of course) in January of this year. He is still involved in this complex and seems to be earning a living carrying out maintenance work, cleaning, gardening. He makes all the decisions himself down you the last flower pot. Before AGM’s he gathers proxies from the older residents who think he’s wonderful and just bored himself back in as director.

None of these older residents care what he does, as it doesn’t affect them. I think I mentioned this before, but the three separate owners have court cases pending against him currently.

10-06-2022 9:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119186064#Comment_119186064

Okay, so he is a Director, not a managing agent, so does not have to be an owner.

Three separate owners have court cases pending against the OMC (EGM in May to discuss) in all likelihood, rather than him personally, it is therefore not surprising that the OMC members, including you, have legal bills.

Just in relation to proxy votes, if the constitution allows it, nothing wrong there, and as long as he declares to the members that he is doing the maintenance work for a fee, that is allowed. What wouldn’t be allowed is for a contract to be awarded to a party which a Director has an interest in, without it being declared. He may well be providing the services for less than an outside contractor and as long as he has the support of the majority of members, there may be little you can do.

You mentioned you are selling to a Government Body, is there a possibility that your fellow owners may be trying to block this sale?

10-10-20 · 10-06-2022 10:44pm

Sounds horrific.

What progress has been made in relation to the topics suggested above such as an EGM and ousting the director in lieu of him not being a property owner?

April 2022 · 10-06-2022 11:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119186127#Comment_119186127

No, it isn’t known who the purchaser is. This information is not common knowledge. This government body have already purchased two apartments in my block. It was a decision I came to, as I felt this director would bully any new owners buying. He won’t be able to bully a huge institution although he has threatened them already.

April 2022 · 10-06-2022 11:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119186330#Comment_119186330

It is impossible to set up an EGM as nobody wants to get involved unless there is an impact on them personally. At the last EGM in May only 15 people turned up

eusap · 14-06-2022 11:54am

Hand him a cheque, get the letter to say all clear, cancel cheque

April 2022 · 14-06-2022 12:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119200497#Comment_119200497

I would be very tempted to do this! We’ve decided no to let him blackmail us. If he causes the sale to fall through, he can pay the solicitor’s and agent’s fees, as well as any mortgage repayments until the place is sold!! We are currently paying two mortgages and the strain is beginning to show at this stage. How this person can jeopardise the livelihoods of other people baffles me

14-06-2022 1:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119200585#Comment_119200585

He really won’t.

April 2022 · 14-06-2022 1:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119200945#Comment_119200945

I’m not sure what you mean

14-06-2022 2:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119201075#Comment_119201075

He won’t pay your solicitors/agents fees nor mortgage until it is sold.

If he has a mandate from the other owners to be a Director of the OMC and you have outstanding fees which must be paid to the OMC before the letter can be issued, I’m not sure why you think he would be liable for any costs to you. What seems to be in dispute is whether these fees are actually owed. Given the fact that there are three legal cases pending, which were initiated whilst you were an owner, it is understandable that some legal fees would be due from members, so far you haven’t given any detail of what was discussed/decided on at the May EGM in relation to those legal issues.

How much is the delay costing you in monthly mortgage repayments, how long more will it take to settle this even if you take a court case? Now compare that to what the outstanding OMC fee is. You can either take a principled approach, or you can be objective, get the letter, sell the property, then let your solicitor chase the OMC for any overpayment.

April 2022 · 14-06-2022 2:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119201292#Comment_119201292

Ok, thanks for that

eusap · 14-06-2022 3:20pm

The only real option is to pay and be done with the place. After the house is sold you can talk to a solicitor about recovering money or report to the guards for Fraud or Elder abuse. I would also send a letter to all residents in the development to let them know this can happen to them if they sell

Director of Management Company stalling sales

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