Cost of running an EV

MojoMaker · 03-06-2022 10:06AM

Got a reply to my email to Electric Ireland. Not sure I like the message coming back to be honest - see below. So my current 24hr rate is now 25.80c since May 1st (up from 21.12c). Surely the 24hr rate should be a blended rate? It's higher than their (previously) quoted standard day rate. Looks like two things happened: 1. Nobody updated the EI website with the standard day/night rate until yesterday (1 month and 1 day with incorrect information) and 2. After my new business "discounts" expired I was put onto a rate higher than the standard unit rate I'm really f**cked off with that.

-----------------------

"Thanks for your email. Your tracking number is {IrecNo:[428538978]}.

Please be advised, that our prices have increased from the 1st May. Please visit our website to read more about the price increase.

We’re happy to provide you with details about our Night Saver meter installation:

•There is no charge for installing this meter.

•If you wish to revert to a single tariff meter at any stage, the removal charge is €192.95.

•Payment is required in advance of ESB Networks removing the meter.

With a Night Saver meter, usage during 11pm to 8am in the winter and midnight to 9am in the summer is billed at a cheaper rate. However it’s worth remembering that the day rate is slightly higher and the standing charge is also slightly higher on this type of meter.

Here’s a breakdown of the related charges (inclusive of 9% VAT):

•Day unit rate 30.04 c/kWh

•Night unit rate 14.82 c/kWh

•Standing Charge Urban (per year) €356.47

•Standing Charge Rural (per year) €434.41

If you have any questions or would like to request Night Saver meter installation please reply to this email.

Kind regards,

Monika

Electric Ireland

markpb · 03-06-2022 10:29AM

That's crazy expensive! Energia's D/N rate is 23.46c (D), 11.26c (N) and €296.40 (Standing Charge) or for high users of night rate units (up to 3,000 kWh D and 2,000 kWh N), they charge 27.43c (D), 7.90c (N) and €296.40 (Standing Charge). All those prices are VAT inclusive.

MojoMaker · 03-06-2022 10:35AM

So, following on from that, I have a question about switching. If I take a day/night meter from EI and subsequently switch down the line, can the same meter be used with another provider? I assume yes as my current meter has been used by lots of providers over the years, but I want to be sure all the same. Same question for a smart meter I guess. If I changed subsequently down the line again and again, am I 'futureproofed', or is it provider-specific and there will be a penalty to move every time?

Bord Gais have a 39%/40% discount offer at the moment which looks much more attractive now:

Electricity Charges

Urban Electricity Region

24 hour rate

Unit rate 20.18 cent. Standing charge €281.12

NightSaver rates

Day rate 21.69 cent. Night rate 10.74 cent. Standing charge €369.64

Looks like it's time to switch - but caveated by questions above so I don't make it more painful than it needs to be.

micks_address · 03-06-2022 10:41AM

not sure its been mentioned but factor in any additional electric works that might be required for a home charger if your house is older than 20 years or so.. could be north of 1k just to get meter wiring upgraded to fuse board and new earthing done to hotpress and boiler.. and potentially earth/remove metal light fixtures / switches. 1k buys a nice bit of driving in petrol/diesel

MojoMaker · 03-06-2022 10:50AM

Fair point, but SEAI grant takes a chunk off that and have a home charger presumably adds to the 'value' of the home. Small I know, but the way the market is shifting I guess.

micks_address · 03-06-2022 10:52AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119152750#Comment_119152750

im doubting the value of the grant to be honest.. most prices seem to have been inflated to consume it.. that might be an unfair generalisation

markpb · 03-06-2022 10:57AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119152695#Comment_119152695

Yes. The meter is installed, owned and read by ESB Networks and they feed the meter readings back to the suppliers. You can change to anyone you like in the future. Basically your electricity supply company just bills you, they don't have any other impact on you so you can pick any of them you like.

Those Bord Gais 324h rates, assuming they include the 30% discount, are still much higher than Energia by the way.

MojoMaker · 03-06-2022 11:07AM

Well if the works are a grand as you say, the €600 grant takes the sting out of it at least.

MojoMaker · 03-06-2022 11:09AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119152783#Comment_119152783

39% elec and 40% gas discount, and from a direct comparison the very best current Energia offer falls just slightly behind that in raw unit and raw standing charge terms. We're talking like €20 per year but it does look like BGE have the best dual fuel offer right now.

BGE:

Electricity (Urban)

24 hour rate

Unit rate 20.18 cent. Standing charge €281.12

Night Saver rates

Day rate 21.69 cent. Night rate 10.74 cent. Standing charge €369.64

Gas:

5.899c + €169.36 standing charge.

ENERGIA

Electricity Charges

24 hour rate

Unit rate 22.14 cent. Standing charge €236.62

Night Saver rates

Day rate 24.25 cent. Night rate 11.64 cent. Standing charge €296.40

Gas Charges

Unit rate 6.245 cent. Standing charge €141.60

micks_address · 03-06-2022 11:20AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119152833#Comment_119152833

for a ev charger/install you will be talking ballpark 1500 on top of that.. if you go for a smart ev charger like the zappi etc.. so you could potentially be at 2k or more - 600

tom1ie · 03-06-2022 11:29AM

You also need to factor in the repayments cost to buy the EV vs whatever repayments (if any) you had to make on your old car.

That could be a significant running cost that would wipe out any fuel savings vs ICE.

MojoMaker · 03-06-2022 11:31AM

Kind of a sideways argument though, as you'd need to make repayments no matter what car you go for - EV or non-EV.

Furze99 · 03-06-2022 11:33AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119148372#Comment_119148372

The substantial day/night differential is not going to exist forever. It's there at the moment as there's excess on the esb networks at night time, so it makes sense to discount and encourage.

But................ once we have all these heat pumps and EVs and God knows what else charging/ running at night time, logic has to be that this differential will shrink.

NIMAN · 03-06-2022 11:34AM

Nice to be an EV owner at present.

The last 9 times my car has been plugged in to charge, its been for free.

6 times at work and 3 times in the North. Free fuel!

tom1ie · 03-06-2022 11:39AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119152957#Comment_119152957

Well no.

You wouldn't if you already owned the car you were getting rid of. (Ie no debt hence no repayment)

Also in another example your repayments might have been €300 pm, they now might be €400pm with a more expensive EV. Thats a running cost.

MojoMaker · 03-06-2022 12:54PM

So that argument is against buying ANY new car, and not really about buying a new EV specifically.

The energy savings of an EV will definitely help offset the monthly cost to acquire the vehicle, much more so that if one bought an equivalently-priced new diesel vehicle where the ongoing fuel bills would be continuing to significantly add to the monthly payments.

Furze99 · 03-06-2022 01:05PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119152973#Comment_119152973

So someone else is paying for your free fuel. How long can that last?

tom1ie · 03-06-2022 01:53PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119153323#Comment_119153323

If you had an ICE car that cost €250 pm to service the debt vs an EV that cost €400 pm to service the debt, are you telling me the fuel savings will compensate for the extra €150 it costs to service the debt?

Mad_maxx · 03-06-2022 02:00PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119153566#Comment_119153566

you can cherry picks pros and cons there , EV,s are going to hold their value much better than ICE cars , anyone who bought an EV in the past three years made a very solid investment

tom1ie · 03-06-2022 03:12PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119153618#Comment_119153618

Yeah I’m not arguing against that at all.

However I am saying that the monthly cost of servicing a more expensive car needs to be factored in as a running cost.

Fingleberries · 03-06-2022 03:54PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119154117#Comment_119154117

I can't remember which thread it was, but someone recently had one about the first 30-60 days of ownership of their EV. It prompted me to do a quick assessment of the same time period for my own ownership of an EV.

Looking purely at fuel costs, it was a saving of around €150, if I recall. I think when I calculated it for the first 60 days of owenership of my new car it cost me approx. €50 extra per month to own the EV when I factored in that I had no debt to service on the previous car.

That being said, I didn't yet have a home charger installed, so when that's finally installed that will result in additional savings over time.

Also, whenever I clear the remaining loan repayments for the car that will definitely result in savings compared to running my previous ICE car. How much of a saving will depend on the prevailing petrol / electricity prices at the time.

NIMAN · 03-06-2022 05:11PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119153368#Comment_119153368

Not sure.

I know my employer has no plans to charge for it. Well not in the foreseeable future. The amount of energy that the ev points consume is a drop in the ocean to what the factory consumes in total.

As for free charging in NI, not sure if there are any plans to end that. Can't see it lasting forever, but no idea if it's going to be anytime soon.

I rarely charge in ni anyway. Just this week I have been in and out a bit, so made the most of it whilst there.

Free for now anyway.

fafy · 03-06-2022 05:13PM

My mileage is below average, about 500kms in May, but this is my costs of charging at home for the month of May,the “green” is car charging, just under €9 this month, we have about 50 % + on a night rate of 10c + vat,(daytime 20 c + vat) the costs included the vat, but not standing charge.

tom1ie · 03-06-2022 05:56PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119154267#Comment_119154267

So you made a saving of €150 on fuel by changing from ICE to diesel. Was that for the month?

Also you say your out of pocket by €50 per month to service the debt of the loan per month (when you add in the savings on fuel) so am I right in saying that’s a loan repayment of €200 pm (seen as you had no debt on previous car) Is that correct?

Seems like a very small loan for an EV, or a large cash payment upfront, or a great trade in on old car, or a very long loan term?

Or my maths is shite!! 😂😝

MojoMaker · 03-06-2022 06:14PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119153566#Comment_119153566

Absolutely.

The fuel savings alone now that I've been educated will be around €350 per month for me.

Fingleberries · 03-06-2022 07:40PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119154793#Comment_119154793

Your maths tally with what I had calculated. It's a small enough loan for the new car due to decent trade in and cash amount I could put towards it from savings.

My maths is definitely back of the napkin stuff, so there's a margin of error wide enough to drive a bus through (an electric bus hopefully).

Excluding the loan, I'm definitely making savings on the weekly running costs (even with mostly public charging, with three or four free charges at work - a 120km round trip). It's worked out about €27 per week on charging - over 10 weeks since I got the car. That figure also includes a round trip to Galway and one to Belfast.

When I get the home charger installed, that will probably drop below €20 per week on average.

Furze99 · 03-06-2022 08:25PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119154566#Comment_119154566

I guess customers of your employer are paying so :)

NIMAN · 03-06-2022 10:48PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119155319#Comment_119155319

Never thought of it like that. They would say they are paying for it themselves in their drive to be green. They have a lot of ongoing policies and initiatives to be more environmentally friendly, and covering the cost of a few employees ev charging costs is one of them.

But they are a billion dollar multi national so as I said, the cost is a drop in the ocean.

icom · 04-06-2022 03:49PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119152973#Comment_119152973

Same here, been charging at work for free for the last 4 years.

Only charge at home when on holiday or the odd long bank holiday weekend when touring around. E-Niro 64kWh.

Never use public chargers.

Gumbo · 04-06-2022 05:39PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119152904#Comment_119152904

Zappi install is currently 1400-1600 before grant at the moment, assuming no major work required.

Cost of running an EV

Comments

Electricity Charges

Urban Electricity Region

Electricity (Urban)

Electricity Charges

Day rate 24.25 cent. Night rate 11.64 cent. Standing charge €296.40

Gas Charges