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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,891 ✭✭✭Homelander


    Actually in WW2 Germany was so confident of a quick victory against the Soviet Union that they scaled down war production and they did not go into total war footing until some point in 1943 I think.

    By that time it was already far too late. Even putting aside their fuel issues because of relentless bombing, they just could not hope to keep pace with losses. By the time their production levels were hitting closer to the required levels the chances of winning the war or even fighting to a successful stalemate were effectively nil.

    Because they did not plan for the eventuality of a protracted war they had not only a massive shortage of replacement weapons, but they had to chose between sending replacement armor or winter gear on extremely poor supply lines. So the myth that the Germans had no winter gear isn't true - they just had no way to get everything they needed to frontline units because they never planned to need it.

    Things might have been very different in they were in a total war economy in 1940 and 1941 that planned for a protracted war, and if their general war planning called for a quick victory but had provision for the potential of a longer conflict.

    Russia also did not at all prepare for Plan B, firstly for the event that their initial attack would outright fail, secondly for a protracted war, and thirdly, for the eventuality of massive, collective response from the West.

    So they actually are far, far more comparable then you might think.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 953 ✭✭✭Detritus70


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 218 ✭✭shivaz


    The Armed Forces of Ukraine received self-propelled artillery units M109. This was recently announced by the Minister of Defense of Ukraine Oleksiy Reznikov on his Facebook page.

    bc662962f2e7a2e6.jpg

    The main weapon of this self-propelled unit is a 155-mm howitzer M284 with a barrel length of 39 calibers, mounted in the turret on the gun carriage M182A1. The firing range when using a conventional shot is 24,000 m, when firing active-jet projectiles firing range increases to 30,000 m.

    A fundamentally new fire control mechanism was also created, resembling an automatic anti-aircraft gun guidance system - it independently provides the howitzer with the required angle of elevation and horizontal guidance, focusing on the information processed by the sensors. The result is a modern automated weapon system that can respond quickly to targets, hit fairly maneuverable objects and is much better protected.https://armyinform.com.ua/2022/05/31/paladin-park-artyleriyi-popovnyvsya-shhe-odnym-inozemnym-zrazkom-yaki-osoblyvosti-cziyeyi-sau/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,277 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Some game of brinkmanship the Russians are playing, here. The Ukrainians can get some grain out of Ukraine by other means, but it's only fraction of what can be moved via its usual route. Will Western powers be forced to act? Would NATO countries move ships into the Black Sea to provide some kind of safe corridor for Ukrainian vessels to get grain out of Odessa? That's even presuming the mines could be navigated. It seems that there will have to be movement in one direction or another with how Russia is being handled in order to let that grain flow. The other option is enduring the potential crisis this grain shortage will create.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,062 ✭✭✭Hobgoblin11


    Russia - the gift that keeps on giving

    Dundalk, Co. Louth



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  • Posts: 2,015 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Dmitry signs contract with Russian army



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,656 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    I can see a grand coalition of countries backed by AU countries (they also need the grain) to force a corridor to allow the export of grain. Russia would not fire on this convoy.

    Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,205 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    The moment she says he'll be driving T-62's and he realises he's just signed his own death warrant



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,073 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe



    Students accuse UK lecturer of spreading disinfo

    Before I even read the article I immediately guessed the staples "Both sides", "We can't really know what happened", "The West..".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,277 ✭✭✭✭briany


    That would all be extremely short-term thinking for the nations mentioned. Firstly, any sudden rise in the cost of staple foods is going to worsen tension over what is already being called a cost of living crisis. Relative scarcity of grain and the cost of it going up worldwide isn't going to make things go in the right direction, there.

    The counter point to this argument is that Europe is not so dependent on Ukrainian grain as other regions, so won't be so badly affected. A point I'll take, but what happens with people in the regions who are badly affected? What do they do? Where do they go? The big political football in Europe of the last decade has been inward migration toward Europe. Cataclysms in the developing world will do nothing to slow this down. Very much the opposite, in fact. Drought and food shortages - two things that Europe thinks its relatively safe from - will only spur on more people to try and get to Europe, and its been the uncertainty/fear of what those waves of people bring that has caused some political fissures in recent years. It's not a trend that European leaders should be unwittingly bolstering through an unwillingness to act now. The inability or unwillingness to see more than a month ahead could be pretty disastrous for the likes of Macron and Scholz. They think they have a lid on right wing populism? They don't know what's coming if they don't quell the knock on effects from the current crisis in Ukraine.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,656 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    This is definitely getting discussed behind closed doors. Possibly even why Biden is not giving the UAF the long range missile and only medium range. All negotiations. If they fail, then I can see warships seizing Ukrainian ports on behalf on an international humanitarian mission, possibly UN based. Not a chance Russia would target a NATO member ship escorting food cargo. Be game over for them. End of the day the world needs that grain, it has to get out.

    Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,656 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    Scholz has really turned out to be a complete disappointment.

    Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,277 ✭✭✭✭briany


    How would these ships seize Ukrainian ports when the waters around them are heavily mined?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,062 ✭✭✭Hobgoblin11


    Head of regional administration says Sieverodonetsk is largely under Russian control

    Dundalk, Co. Louth



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,656 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    That's probably been worked on. I'd say an agreement will be reached between Ukraine, Russia and other groups to get these ships out in some shape or form. I can even see Egypt playing a role here.

    Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,656 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    Not war, that would be just ridiculous. Ukraine would probably not object to an international buffer force on the south, Russian ship missiles may be forced to stand down risk hitting a wrong target. Anyhow, I'm sure backroom deals are probably already in the works to get this grain out. Demining, safe passage, possibly even Russian seized ships would also be allowed (embargo clause for emergency relief or something)

    Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 218 ✭✭shivaz


    There are two parts to the city.The population area and the industrial area,then the river and across it is Lysychansk.It seems Russian forces have take most of the population area and Ukraine forces have retreated to the industrial area.The industrial area can be protected from the higher ground of Lysychansk on the other side of the river so there may be a long battle ahead.

    At first they attacked Severodonetsk from the woods,now they have moved into the city which is more dangerous than woods and eventually they will have move into the open industrial area.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,068 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    The Comrades on the thread won't like that. Germany is playing a blinder as far as they are concerned.


    The reaction from Ukraine Officials and pro democratic activists in Germany is much harsher.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,068 ✭✭✭✭Danzy




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 218 ✭✭shivaz


    I think a Black sea war is a huge problem for Putin as the entire Fleet would be destroyed by the long range missiles that Biden had spoke about sending.Putin can't win that sea war as there is nowhere to hide and in that scenario Turkey controls the Black sea and all traffic in and out because it has been demilitarized.That changes world power structures again.

    There can be no big conflict in that sea so I can see Putin backing down and allowing the grain out but he will spin it as a win.He also has grain to sell.The problem is finding some force to keep the peace and Ukraine will soon have anti-ship missiles.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,923 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Best ? Or expendable ? Neither Chechens not Wagner are counted by Russia as casualties.. ( not that they're officially announcing their casualties anyway )

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 953 ✭✭✭Detritus70


    Oh what a blistering counter argument, full of well made points and links that support said points, no wait...

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,068 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Germany's name is now mud in Eastern Europe.


    Eastern Europe is going to change the EU from here on in.


    They'll stick together now or hang together and they will give Berlin and Paris some slaps if they get in their way.


    The two big old powers are looking at this as an inconvenience and a threat to the pocket,a trouble with a friend.


    The East of the EU are looking at people who they are close to being wiped out, shipped off to work camps in Russia in their millions.


    The defining aspect of EU summits for years was the French and German leadership meeting before hand to decide the end result.


    That is now over and who knows what that will lead to.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,205 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    Was there not some talk of creating an Eastern bloc alliance?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 953 ✭✭✭Detritus70


    So far Germany has sent 2500 anti aircraft missiles, 900 Panzerfaust with 3000 rounds of ammunition, 100 machine guns, 15 bunkerfaust with 50 rockets, 100000 hand grenades, 2000 mines, 5300 explosive charges, 16 million rounds of ammunition and 5000 helmets.

    Is this enough? Not by a loooong shot. Should Germany send more? HELL YES!!!! And, of course, there is more planned. No one is happy with Scholtz on this. I'd kick his ass personally, given the chance.

    But to suggest that the German government is covertly supporting the Russians in this is desultory, risible and a feeble attempt at throwing mud at a convenient target to just score points for one's own agenda. In other words, edgelord bullsh*t. And worse has been suggested, that is just infantile nonsense by birdbrains. Should anyone feel personally insulted by this, GOOD! Away with ya, ya bawbag.

    There is also a "ring swap" in the works. Czech Republic, Slovenia and Greece will send BMP-1, T72 and Dana howitzers and recieve Marder and Leopard in return.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,058 ✭✭✭Polar101


    They could call it Warsaw Pact, I think it's a catchy name.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,086 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Various reports of f all coming from Germany including small arms in weeks. And they want to swap new weapons to Ukraine can get 1960s BMPs.

    Why not sent them mardars like they asked. Australians sent over bushmasters.

    It's fuckery now frankly.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 247 ✭✭hayse




This discussion has been closed.
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