Russia - threadbanned users in OP

EltonJohn69 · 29-05-2022 06:31PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119129898#Comment_119129898

I do suspect some in the US military would believe a prolonged war for Russia will break them as a military power and possibly cause a change in power.

jmreire · 29-05-2022 06:31PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119131564#Comment_119131564

Because with Russia reduced to a state of powerlessness, that leaves the US a clear field if China and Taiwan kicks off. One down, nr 2 to go. And for sure, the US Military Complex will be more than 100% ( if that's possible?? ) behind him. Now its the perfect scenario for Biden no matter which way you look at it.......hammering the daylights out of Putins army, without any worrying about US fatalities.

fly_agaric · 29-05-2022 06:32PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119131434#Comment_119131434

What wheeling and dealing have they (France and Germany) actually been doing that prolongs the "agony" here (the war)? Lots of comments, little substance really.

They talk to Putin, yes and this makes people here angry with their govt.'s (or they claim it does anyway). I think Austria's chancellor has been in contact with him too as has Erdogan (Turkey of course won't even sanction Russia or give any aid to Ukraine as far as I'm aware). If they all stop talking to Putin that might be very satisying and will isolate him more, but it is not going to end the war IMO.

As regards Europe uniting and destroying Putin, I do doubt somewhat if Europe is militarily capable of supplying Ukraine to do this job, bar perhaps denuding all the militaries and turning over their weapons to Ukraine. It always has been very dependent on the US in military matters, even those happening right on the edge of the EU, and this war exposes this again.

(edit: not related to your post...just an idle brain fart) I suppose, to speculate, if Trump had been in power in the US we might have had the lovely spectacle of EU countries (and the UK too!) all begging on bended knee for some US interest in & support for Ukraine, & edit: Donald Trump like the big boss of a mafia protection racket naming the price in EUR to provide that support!

notfromhere · 29-05-2022 06:40PM

Why should we be quiet in all this we cant help military but we are giving aid, By sitting on the fence as you say, we are saying that it is alright to rape women, childern,babies. Anybody how knows anything about this war knows their is zero chance of a nuclear attack on Ireland.

Dyr · 29-05-2022 06:49PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119129977#Comment_119129977

It's fascinating to see the High Horsey types who spouted the EU guff about democratic values and rule of law suddenly become moral relativists to defend the continental European powers once it becomes clear that it was all just window dressing for Germanys realpolitik. So far down the rabbit hole they can't back out. Ideologically captured in the same way that Germany has been ideoligically captured by Russia.

Apparently we're so reliant on Germany that we should play along with them and Russia no matter what, in the same way that Germany is reliant on cheap Russian fuel. Obviously we should never, ever ask about why we might be so reliant on Germany, largest trading partner for nearly every EU country, (oh hai Brussels) or how we should go about reducing that reliance, absolutely not 😂

We should also, never ask why Germany and France are so shy about sending weaponry to Ukraine and so bullish about a peace at any cost agreement ASAP while pulling this sort of ****:

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/tanks-no-ammo-germanys-ukraine-pledges-show-military-muddle-2022-05-25/

Meanwhile Scholz and Macron both on the phone to oul Vlad constantly and bolstering him with their appreasement press releases. Guess who wants to still be on good terms with the Dictator next door when all this ends?

Meanwhile Poland sending 18 of its tracked artillery pieces in comparison the 5 Caesers France managed to spare or the handful of PzH 2000s Germany are meant to be sending, although, given their previous form, the Ukranians would not want to hold their breath https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1530904087365132292

Fiery mutant · 29-05-2022 06:51PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119131619#Comment_119131619

The idea that we should stay quiet while countless thousands are subjected to horrific treatment is utterly indefensible. Us, a nation with no capacity to defend ourselves, would be utterly reliant on the generosity of others if we ourselves were to come under attack. But even outside of that fact, who are we as a nation, as a people if we say nothing against these horrors just for fear of upsetting some dictator.

29-05-2022 06:51PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119131589#Comment_119131589

If you think there is no strategy beyond killing Ukrainians you’re over simplifying it.

notfromhere · 29-05-2022 06:56PM

So what is the strategy

JoChervil · 29-05-2022 07:02PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119131589#Comment_119131589

These aims don't exclude each other

eire4 · 29-05-2022 07:36PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119130050#Comment_119130050

All those countries have every justification for fearing what the Russian dictatorship might do next in terms of invading another country although IMHO I think Moldova is a more likely next target.

RedCardKid · 29-05-2022 07:41PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119131729#Comment_119131729

So basically the French, Germans and whoever else do not give all they have to the Ukrainians and tell Putin to stick his gas are a pack of cnuts, that is until the wee island of Ireland needs them to protect or rebuild, then they will be heros and the same clowns shouting off about them today will be cheering them when they get a benifit at their own front door. Makes a lot of sense ....

zv2 · 29-05-2022 07:43PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119131619#Comment_119131619

The alternative is to let Ukraine fall and embolden Putin. Then he says 'Give me Poland or I'll nuke Warsaw' So we give him Poland to keep the peace. 'Give me Germany or I'll nuke Berlin'.

No. This must not happen.

archer22 · 29-05-2022 07:53PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119131290#Comment_119131290

No the German's didn't get their "compass settings wrong" they went west because they were attacked by Britain and France...and yeah of course that was to 'defend' Poland we are told, but Poland was attacked by 3 nations Germany,the Soviet Union and Slovakia.But Britain and France only declared war on one of them, then allied with one of the others and gave them Poland when it was no longer of use to them...even though it was supposedly its independence they fought the war over!.

The other event I am referring to is the ignored horrific Genocide of the Germans after World war 2, when millions of them were murdered by various methods...perhaps up to 16 million by some estimates.

The rump state is the Germany of today, you only need to compare maps pre and post war to see that..also clearly shows the Genocide.

JoChervil · 29-05-2022 08:01PM

Warning about the video

https://twitter.com/JulienPain/status/1530486392760979457?cxt=HHwWgsCy4f3QsL0qAAAA

notfromhere · 29-05-2022 08:02PM

This has nothing to do with oil

fly_agaric · 29-05-2022 08:03PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119131969#Comment_119131969

Well one thing you omit is that the US aid is mostly military aid isn't it, rather than separate somehow (otoh 80 or 90 % is a figure I recall without googling)? Lend lease is all about weapons for Ukraine too.

The EU countries, and the UK do not, I expect have an entire Ukrainian army's worth (say $40bn?) of spare NATO weapons sitting there to supply Ukraine yesterday (or as fast as possible). The US (likely) does.

They could pay that to arms manufacturers I suppose and get the weapons in...I dunno (really - I can't say).

Or they could give it to the US perhaps in exchange (as per earlier post they might have had to do just that if they wanted to see Ukraine backed up more strongly and good old Donnie Trump was still in the hot seat over there!).

Danzy · 29-05-2022 08:10PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119131947#Comment_119131947

Putin already has Berlin.

zv2 · 29-05-2022 08:12PM

Russian progress around Severdonetsk results largely from the fact that Moscow has concentrated forces, equipment, and materiel drawn from all other axes on this one objective. Russian troops have been unable to make progress on any other axes for weeks and have largely not even tried to do so. Ukrainian defenders have inflicted fearful casualties on the Russian attackers around Severodonetsk even so. Moscow will not be able to recoup large amounts of effective combat power even if it seizes Severdonetsk, because it is expending that combat power frivolously on taking the city.

Ukrainian forces are also suffering serious losses in the Battle of Severodonetsk, as are Ukrainian civilians and infrastructure. The Russians have concentrated a much higher proportion of their available offensive combat power to take Severodonetsk than the Ukrainians, however, shaping the attrition gradient generally in Kyiv’s favor. The Ukrainians continue to receive supplies and materiel from their allies as well, however slow and limited that flow may be. The Russians, in contrast, continue to manifest clear signs that they are burning through their available reserves of manpower and materiel with no reason to expect relief in the coming months.

Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, May 28 | Institute for the Study of War (understandingwar.org)

JoChervil · 29-05-2022 08:14PM

https://twitter.com/Nrg8000/status/1530937588206272512?cxt=HHwWgICg5YHo_b4qAAAA

..

RedCardKid · 29-05-2022 08:14PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119131721#Comment_119131721

You do realise the German government have started building an LNG terminal and pipeline which they plan to have finished in record time to reduce their dependancy on Russian gas, it will not happen overnight however they are working on it, they plan to invest €100 billion into their military to bring it up to (NATO) standard and at the same time are trying to keep their people in work and economy afloat... what is Ireland doing?

Have you ever lived on mainland Europe? Ever had the pleasure of working for a German or French production company? Do you realise how many French and German citizens rely on the gas dependant companies to earn their livings? Do you realise how many of those people rely on gas to heat their homes and water? Obviously not .... sure we could switch the internet off tomorrow and lets see how the Irish economy copes. How many of the tech companies would still be paying people within a month of the internet being switched off?

Dyr · 29-05-2022 08:30PM

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1530807194500857856

Frau Van Der Lyden gone from toutng a total oil ban to claiming that EU members buying oil from Russia is a cunning plan to stop them selling it elsewhere for a better price 😂 Another decision that accomodates Germany, as per usual. All pretence of what they claimed the EU was about in tatters now.

RedCardKid · 29-05-2022 08:30PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119132074#Comment_119132074

Where are the UK gas fields and why have they not been tapped by now? Why are the Dutch closing their North Sea gas fields? Because there is so much gas out there? Having worked in the industry in both Holland and Germany I can assure you, that the gas in the North Sea will take at least 12-24 months to tap into and will not be financially viable to tap, otherwise it would have happened. LNG is available from the US, however Europe has 2 terminals that are capable of taking it into the grid, no were near enough capacity to compensate the loss of Russian gas, hence why the German government are building a mobile terminal which they hope to have in operation next year.

As for fracking .... lets start in your back garden. You do realise why the EU is against it? You realise what is pumped into the ground to extract the gas and what effect it has on the lands surrounding. If Ireland were to engage in it .... fertiliser would be the countries smallest problem.

fly_agaric · 29-05-2022 08:35PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119132074#Comment_119132074

I had not seen a detailed breakdown (or noticed it was posted), sorry. The fact is the big figure of $10s of billions you were mentioning is mostly military aid, Lend Lease is military aid, and as I said the US is in a unique position to actually provide this.

Most of what you are complaining about (Energiewende, over reliance on gas, Green anti nuclear stance etc. yet again) is bad policy that you can't fix without a time machine.

You can suspect all you want of course and good luck to you (!), another poster was on about the French/German "realpolitik", but its just nonsense in context of this war IMO. There is no benefit to either country (let alone the EU) that I see if Putin gains some kind of win out of this (either was as originally expected by taking Ukraine entire, or now, by imposing some humiliating settlement on Ukraine or the forcing lifting of sanctions on Russia etc.). It's a disater for everyone, and oil & gas supply from Russia is just not worth it.

indioblack · 29-05-2022 08:38PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119131995#Comment_119131995

One way or another Germany was going to get what it wanted - either by coercion or direct conquest. The invasion of Poland was considered the point at which this was to be opposed, so war was declared. The Third Reich was the immediate threat to Europe and a European war became, with the addition of Italy and the Japanese Empire, a world war.

The strategic decisions taken by the belligerent countries were seldom perfect, some just plain failures - you mention one with regard to Poland.

One decision taken was that the Third Reich had to be brought down. I doubt if many would disagree with that.

What happened to the German population at the end of the war has not been ignored - it's simply little known.

You could as easily be critical of the Germans in the last eight months or so of the war. The system in Germany wouldn't, or couldn't, acknowledge that they were going to be defeated. This resulted in millions of casualties on all sides, mostly Germans.

RedCardKid · 29-05-2022 08:46PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119132161#Comment_119132161

But the Irish Government also banned it .... it would be worth approx. €80 billion to Northern Ireland alone. Why not risk contaminating water supplies, property and animals to get a bit of gas? Sure if the Yanks can do it, so can we.

Hobgoblin11 · 29-05-2022 08:59PM

https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1530733979590082560

missiles from Russia

fly_agaric · 29-05-2022 09:01PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119132193#Comment_119132193

Thanks for the link, it is still quite vague though, with talk of "other countries" etc.

On the other side of the equation I did find this EU page:

https://ec.europa.eu/info/strategy/priorities-2019-2024/stronger-europe-world/eu-solidarity-ukraine/eu-assistance-ukraine_en

So I think that would be $4.4bn from EU & EU members in non military aid to Ukraine since start of the war. This does not appear to include costs of the Temporary Protection Directive. I think this has been helpful for Ukraine, though 1 of the Germany-critics posting on here (!) believes Ireland is being unfairly burdened by it and should opt out.

Also (though this is not particularly relevant IMO), I don't believe you are right that the EU has a larger economy - the US is larger now. Even absent Brexit, there is a GDP gap developing. This is a source I found on a quick google: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.CD?locations=EU-US-CN

I hardly want to "pat us on (all) the back" (EU/Germany/France, or indeed this country too).

That's a bit of a generous way to describe offering opposing pov to a few posts that are pretty much calling out Germany, or indeed the EU as at best doing very little c.f. the US for some venal, cowardly or nefarious reasons (that would be you) and at worst some kind of ally of Putin, or quislings trying to sell out Ukraine (others)....

edit: Also thanks for some of those past posts and translations of the Russian tv talking heads and current affairs shows etc., interesting & useful to know what is being said to the audience, what message is being given out, but I don't anyone (on "our" side) should ever make decisions based on it!

Dyr · 29-05-2022 09:13PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119132073#Comment_119132073

Yes and I know that they were well aware what Putin had been up to in Ukraine when they were building Nordstream 2 and that if the Ukraine hadnt messed it all up by not folding they'd be only to happy to be carrying on business as usual with Vlad right now so dry your eyes. Pretending those poor naive Germans didnt have a notion who they were getting into bed with

JoChervil · 29-05-2022 10:14PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119132138#Comment_119132138

Europe has only 2 LNG terminals? C'omon

And mobile terminals are usually leased, not built

hayse · 29-05-2022 10:16PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119132566#Comment_119132566

Good to see, they have them on the down hill now and keep it going.

Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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