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Random EV thoughts.....

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,003 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    True, boats should have sails, literally free transportation

    Although, if you're only doing 4 knots because of lack of sunshine, it doesn't really matter as long as the bar is fully stocked 🍺🍹

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,510 ✭✭✭cannco253


    “Electric cars have many advantages over internal combustion engine cars in the mountains, as they do not suffer a penalty related to the thin air. We already saw how much it helps EVs in mountain races like Pikes Peak, where ICE vehicles are losing power towards the top.”

    How much power does an ICE car lose and at what altitude? Not that it matters here…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,179 ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    They do have sails....

    And they've worked fine for thousands of years..

    Screenshot 2022-05-26 at 09.25.54.png

    These days the top single handed lads will do the 45,000km round the world race in in or around 75 days. The first solo non stop voyage in 1968/9 took 312 days.

    We haven't even scratched the surface in terms of the potential to harness wind power.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 66,638 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    @AndyBoBandy - "We haven't even scratched the surface in terms of the potential to harness wind power."

    It looks like mainstream politicians, not just the greens, are finally seeing the light. The taoiseach said yesterday that

    "Wind is Ireland’s oil"

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/wind-is-irelands-oil-says-martin-as-eu-moves-away-from-russian-energy-41689773.html



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,207 ✭✭✭innrain


    A brief google finds a "rule of the thumb" of 3% for each 1000 feet or translated in metric units 1% for each 100m of altitude. As you said not very important here.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,179 ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    When we are performance testing power generating gas turbines after we've done maintenance work or upgrades to them, we always try and do it during the coldest part of the day (usually morning), as the air is denser and and therefore we can get more molecules into the compressor inlet meaning a better & more efficient combustion in the turbine section..

    Then as the air is sucked through the compressor (which is about 2-3m long), it heats up rapidly from ambient temperature to about 600 degree's C in a few hundredths of a second before it's mixed with gas or fuel oil and then combusted!!! Mad stuff altogether!!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,003 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    I meant the Silent yachts specifically (no I'm not counting the kite, only works when the wind is behind you 😁)

    But yes, I think wind power is definitely making its way back into sea transportation. There's designs for kites and sails to be put on container ships, and with the bans on high sulphur fuels and the increased in gas prices, I can see those designs becoming reality soon

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,003 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Well, he's not wrong, but politicians say a lot of things, still waiting on some action

    I had an idea recently that minister's salaries should be determined by how much of the program for government actually gets done. As well as having good KPIs in their relevant departments.

    I imagine there'd be a lot fewer speeches and far more things done if that were the case 😂

    But, like I said, he isn't wrong. There's orders of magnitude more potential wind power available to Ireland than what we'll ever use. Plenty of scope there for exporting power

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,339 ✭✭✭crisco10



    I did a very similar calculation a while ago, except the destination was Bordeaux.

    I fired up the spreadsheet again, and adapted for your case...(I should say, I bear no responsibility for the accuracy of these numbers!)

    Assumptions

    -4 passengers

    -All EV Charging at an energy mix comparable to UKs

    -the following input values:

    image.png


    Using the numbers, and assuming you're going Dublin -> Holyhead -> Dover -> Calais -> Eindhoven on the landbridge, versus flying the great circle distance Dublin to Eindhoven yields the following:

    image.png

    That's total CO2, one way. So doesn't account for any other emissions etc. So the question is what is ~450 kg CO2 worth to you and your family?


    edit: I should say the Amsterdam option will almost certainly be the worst for the environment. Similar flight length to Eindhoven but definitely more taxiing by the plane on the ground and then whatever emissions you create by getting the train. So it will be just 515Kg plus plus.

    Post edited by crisco10 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 66,638 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Interesting stuff, @crisco10. Would you mind doing the complete calculation of the one way journey adding up to 72kg and where did you get the 515kg for the plane journey?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,339 ✭✭✭crisco10


    No problem, not that complicated...

    For Airline it was: # of passengers x distance x CO2 intensity per km per person i.e. 4 x 820x 157 = 514,960 gCO2 = 514.96kg

    For Boat/EV it was similar methodology:

    EV part: Electricity Intensity x (Consumption/100) x driving distance = 233 x (18/100) x 893 = 37,452gCO2 = 37.4KG

    Boat Part: gCO2 per km x distance -> (130 + (3*18.5)) x 190 = 35,150 gCO2 = 35kg

    Emission factors for ferries have 2 values, 1 is for Car + Driver (130) and another (18.5) for Foot Passengers. Thus I modelled the family of 4 as 1 car + driver and 3 foot passengers.

    Add the EV and Boat = 72.4kg (the small difference is just rounding!)


    I did a lot of work with emission factors back in college, and they are littered with error and inaccuracy. However, as a a first order analysis they are recognised as being very functional.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭wassie


    Aircraft engineers have similar practices in warmer climates with their jet engines.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Impressive maths and the ferries sure are a bit more efficient than I thought. They do have lots of dead weight per passenger. Does that carbon intensity calculation consider the much greater freight capacity per passenger compared to a plane, do you know? The passengers are almost an afterthought for many operators and the freight is what keeps the ferries going and that's even a greater incentive to traveling by a ferry/EV combo.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,339 ✭✭✭crisco10



    Here's the methodology, relevant bits around section 7.4:


    To answer your question, the answer is yes. Freight is included in that calculation, and the CO2 portioned out per tonne of freight and per passenger/car.

    "From the information provided by the operators, figures for passenger-km, tonnekm and CO2 emissions were calculated. CO2 emissions from ferry fuels were allocated between passengers and freight based on tonnages transported, taking into account freight, vehicles and passengers."

    But, if our friend gets a solely passenger boat, the emission factor is no longer valid since the number used assumes efficiencies due to a mixed use boat.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 66,638 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    @crisco10 - thanks for sharing that. Quite shocking that flying would generate roughly 5 times as much emissions as driving your car on your own for a trip like that.

    To use those base rates to compare a transatlantic trip from Dublin to New York (about 5k km) for a single passenger without car would be even more stark. Boat: 5000 * 18.5 = 93kg, plane 5000 * 157 = 785kg. Greta had a point there. Although that's just CO2, not so sure if the figures are as stark if you compare other emissions that boats are not good at

    And to put things into perspective, a quick google shows that 1kW of solar PV panels installed, offsets 1400kg of CO2. This means with my 10kW of PV, I would fully offset a return flight for my family of 5 to California every 10 months or to Australia every 18 months



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,003 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    @crisco10 That's an awesome calculation. Although I was hoping to feel less guilty about flying not more 😂

    I'm quite shocked tbh by the difference, I thought it would be closer given the dirtier fuels often used by shipping, but I guess sheer quantity of fuel used by a jet for a relatively low number of passengers really makes the difference

    Maybe I'll put my green cap on and look at the land bridge option again. I'll use the promise of Legoland to get the kids on board 😁

    It'd be nice if the Dunkirk route was opened to passengers, that would put me a lot closer without all the driving. Although 24 hours on a ferry might be as stressful

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,339 ✭✭✭crisco10


    As @unkel said though, it's only CO2. If you were to assess it based on Particulate Matter (which I assume is where ferries and other Heavy Fuel oil burners are terrible), the equation is different.

    It's also driven to a degree by the EV being used and not ICE. If it was ICE car with emissions of about 180 gCO2/km, the landbridge CO2 triples to about 210Kg of CO2 one way.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭wassie


    This means with my 10kW of PV, I would fully offset a return flight for my family of 5 to California every 10 months or to Australia every 18 months

    You wouldnt actually be offsetting anything unless you are part of a validated carbon trading scheme would you? (not 100% certain myself). But I would hasten to add that simply having a PV installation means you have made a significant capital investment at your own cost in order to measurably reduce your CO2 emisssions which is to be commended.

    Thanks however to all above - I find this discussion really informative.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 66,638 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    I'm not officially trading my carbon credits, no. Maybe I should. It made Tesla billions from other companies having to give them free money for their sins of producing polluting internal combustion engine vehicles and they were unable to make anything else 😂


    But on a serious note, I would be happy to strive for carbon neutrality in my home / family. Not sure where I am at that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,510 ✭✭✭cannco253


    Has anyone here ever had to be “rescued” by the AA or someone similar due to the battery being fully discharged ?

    Do they just call a flatbed recovery truck and take you to the nearest charger (happened to someone I know) or have they any charging facility when they come out?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 66,638 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Never happened to me in over 5 years of EV driving, although I have cut it fine a few times. If it happens, just ring the assist number from your insurance company, they'll come out and tow you to wherever you want, a garage, your home or a fast charger. For free. Exact same as with an ICE car. If you own a Tesla, ring the Tesla support number. Same deal, but they answer straight away, have a very good customer service and go the extra mile to get you sorted.


    BTW I have run out of fuel twice in my life (in nearly 40 years of driving), once my own stupidity, once a vacuum problem in the fuel tank.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,317 ✭✭✭zg3409


    Firstly try avoid running out by filling back up long before you need to. I bring a public charging cable, a granny cable and a 15 metre waterproof extension lead everywhere I go. I tend to stop every 100km to try refill even though my range is 150km+. Main issue is broken chargers, blocked or busy chargers, very common at peak times. I tend to check on app to see if busy in way there and divert if in use. I tend not to queue.


    The breakdown support you get varies depending on contract. Many newer cars come with free breakdown, e.g. Hyundai gets free AA basic.

    Your car insurance may have breakdown included, but it may be limited to x km or to get you to nearest slow charger but not all the way home. Typically the tow vehicle to nearest charger, but if this is an AC charger you may have a couple if hours charging before you can make a DC charger for typically 7 times faster fill.

    It's relatively hard to run out in an EV. Mine starts to warn at 13% and goes nuts around 4%, so typically you will at least make it to a household socket somewhere.

    You should aim to never go below 20% on trips to allow for margin of error but I have gone down. To 1% when I knew I would make it home.



  • Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Is running out of fuel counts as a breakdown?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,003 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    IMO car won't move == breakdown

    Certainly if I ran out of charge I'd probably be telling people I broke down to save myself the embarrassment 😏

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,262 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    You should aim to never go below 20% on trips to allow for margin of error but I have gone down. To 1% when I knew I would make it home.

    20% of an I4 is more battery than my e-Up! had at 100%



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,510 ✭✭✭cannco253




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,422 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    The MiL ran out of battery a couple of months ago. Turned out it was the 12V battery. Recovery driver replaced with new one and off she went.

    Stay Free



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,930 ✭✭✭Alkers


    The aa have at least one van that can charge an EV, I assume at a pretty measly rate. I'm not sure if it charges and tows at the same time or if it just waits there while giving you what you need to get to the nearest charger



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,207 ✭✭✭innrain


    I think it is a DC mobile unit. They don't quote the max power but 15% of battery charge in just 20 minutes

    https://www.theaa.ie/blog/aas-electric-vehicle-mobile-charging-unit-first-europe/



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 66,638 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    @innrain - yes you must be right. Let's say a 50kWh battery, 15% = 6.5kWh. To charge that in 20 minutes needs a 20kW charger, so this almost certainly is one of those compact mobile 22kW DC charging stations that can do both CCS and CHAdeMO



This discussion has been closed.
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