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Dublin - BusConnects

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  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,403 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    Government approval for the BusConnects preliminary business case is expected today. Core Bus Corridors planning applications and Next Generation Ticketing procurement to follow.



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,398 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    Signs up on the Howth Road warning of major road works from Clontarf to Amiens St, March 2022 onwards. Presumably this is the Clontarf to City Centre project, thought I'd put it in here as it's a "Core Corridor" in all but name.



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,398 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox




  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Surely we must be close to launching another spine soon?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,242 ✭✭✭p_haugh


    G-spine is planned to in the summer, likely June or July. The N4, N6, W4, W6 should also be launching in the coming months. N4&N6 were delayed from the January launch due to shortage of drivers



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    There's construction going on in Red Cow car park. Is this BusConnects-related?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,242 ✭✭✭p_haugh


    Yes, the bus terminus there is being expanded in preparation for the launch of the G-spine.

    I spotted this posted by LUAS the other day:




  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,398 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    DCC councillors got a presentation on the C2CC route today, and Ray McAdam kindly put it up online.

    It reads to me that they made changes during the design phase, but unfortunately the maps that they provide are more focused on the trees along the route, and you can't really see the final design of the actual route itself. Hopefully detailed designs will be up soon.



  • Registered Users Posts: 910 ✭✭✭brianc89


    From what I can see there is only one bus stop between the railway line on Amiens street and the NCR. Currently there are 2 stops. Is the street losing a stop opposite Buckingham Street?

    It is a shame the Preston Street entrance to Connolly Dart isn't being completed as part of these works. It would link the whole area up well. Also, the future orbital (O) route on NCR will have an interchange with the bus stop on Amiens. I hope they have considered all of this in their planning. Ideally, 2 new entrances to Connolly would be opened up - one at Preston Street and another from NCR.



  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,403 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,242 ✭✭✭p_haugh


    Slightly Off topic here, but DLR have yet again shown how to do a decent Dublin 'dutch-style' junction, and active travel in general for that matter.

    If only the NTA could take note....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,242 ✭✭✭p_haugh


    Seems they made the Belfield/Blackrock site live a little early




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,292 ✭✭✭VonLuck


    May be a stupid question but are they planning to resurface every road that is on each of the routes? I know there are some CPO's and road widening required but I'm slightly concerned that this will become a patchwork quilt of tarmac where they try to retain as much of the existing road as a cost saving exercise.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 233 ✭✭Heartbreak Hank


    I would imagine they will do a complete job on the whole thing. What I would be worried about is the day after they finish in come Eir or Virgin or Irish Water and dig a trench and give it the old cold tar + back of the shovel treatment.

    It might be a huge project risk & cost but I would put out notice to all utility owners that in partnership with Bus Connects the entire utility infrastructure along the corridors will be overhauled. I am especially thinking of Irish Water & the drainage sections of the councils. As we know the water supply needs a massive upgrade (the energy wasted to unaccounted for water is massive). The foul drainage is a combined system - if there is every a hope of separating it, the pipework for the separate systems should be put in and when with new connections / remediation works come onstream they have somewhere to discharge to (the energy wasted by treating clean water is massive). Any utility ducts not claimed should be ripped out. A load of empty ducts installed and sold / rented as needed. You could even add in district heating pipes. The complexity / cost of digging a hole in the city is increased by looking down at a plate of spaghetti of live, dead and reused ducts.

    Then there should be a 5 year moratorium placed on any non emergency works in any of the corridors.

    This is pie in the sky thinking but in doing it as part of one big bang has significant efficiencies and there should not be a need to dig up the corridors for years



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,107 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    one big benefit of the Luas - once the tracks are down, they're down. Bus lanes no matter how well designed or segregated are always going to be a magnet for utility providers to dig up and lay stuff underneath.

    Looking at the latest plans for the Blackrock corridor, the one thing that jumps out is how much potential conflict there is going to be between cyclists and bus passengers at the bus stops. I regularly cycle this route, and it's actually not too bad as a cyclist - the Rock bypass has excellent cycle lanes (wide enough to overtake other cyclists) and there's a bus lane most of the rest of the way to Ballsbridge though the surface is variable. You can make excellent time though there are a few pinch points.

    The cycle lane in the plans passes through multiple bus stops in places where the footpath is quite narrow - it's the same on the existing N11 cycle-lanes and one of the main reason I don't use that route (along with the crappy surface). Even where the cycle lane goes around the back of the bus shelter, there's invariably pedestrians milling about on it and you have to slow down or even stop.

    So whilst this plan will make cycling safer and that in itself will encourage more cyclists, if you're an existing cyclist on the route your going to find yourself on a fairly narrow cycle lane, with increased numbers of other cyclists and coming into conflict with bus passengers every few hundred metres. It will be a lot slower.

    (You could of course stay on the road in the bus lane but then you'll get bus drivers sitting on your back wheel and angry taxi drivers waving their arms and pointing at the cycle lane.)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,754 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    The real test will come with the Blanchardstown scheme where we'll see significant cpo and a serious reallocation of road space away from cars.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,292 ✭✭✭VonLuck


    Does anyone have an image of the proposed cycle lanes in reality? I've seen some cross sections where the lane is raised above the vehicular lanes. Curious to know how this works in reality e.g. risk of people falling off bikes trying to overtake another cyclist.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    Provided that you can move into and out of the bus lane from the cycle lane, the experienced commuting cyclist can avoid conflicts with pedestrians at the bus stop bypasses. If there are raised kerbs, they should drop before and after bus stops. Obviously if there's a bus at the stop, you'll just have to forego the momentum and yield to pedestrians.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    They build them that way in Copenhagen and no one falls off their bike. You just need experience I suppose.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,292 ✭✭✭VonLuck


    Do you have any photo examples? Putting "Copenhagen bike lanes" into Google image search throws up a lot of segregated lanes. Curious as to what it looks like when the lanes run alongside each other.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭strassenwo!f


    I'm an occasional visitor to Dublin, and no longer a huge user of any transport when I'm there, but I have been impressed with the leap card, the much improved efforts to give a better idea of when a bus is actually going to arrive, and so far with the very limited bits of this project I have seen (unfortunately just along the C1/C2 corridor).

    It is my opinion that Dublin Bus, which - faults and all - has always given an overall monumental service to the city, has made bigger strides in the last 7-10 years than in all its previous decades combined.

    One thing which is still noticeable is the large number of 'As Seirbhis' buses, at all times of the day, in Dublin. I've lived in a few cities, some bigger and some smaller than Dublin, and in none of them did I see an 'out of service' bus more than about twice a year.

    It would be great if BusConnects brings an end to what seems to be a particular problem in Dublin, or can at least reduce it drastically.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭strassenwo!f


    One solution I've seen is that all buses going out of service take on a particular number depending on their depot rather than the route they have just served (500, say, for all buses to Conyngham Road, 600 for Donnybrook, etc.), so people can still take them if they are going broadly in that direction, at whatever time of the day. Of course, it helps if these buses take an acknowledged route back to their base, but this can be shown at each stop.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,864 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Buses leave the depot with As Seirbhis and travel to the start of the route, then do their turn of duty, and return from the terminus with As Seirbhis empty. Now, it would make sense that they pick up passengers on their way from the depot, and on their return.

    During busy times, they should run some buses on partial routes, turning and then running back. The route is busy in the middle, but less so as the reach the terminus. Now it complicates route numbers unless it gets to be widespread, and passengers become aware that not only is the route number important but so is the destination. This could apply when buses begin to bunch or are running severely late.

    Just an idea.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,292 ✭✭✭VonLuck


    I don't know if this is the place for this question, but has anyone else noticed the very poor correlation between the real-time information at bus stops, the apps and when the buses actually arrive? I recall last week waiting for a bus on the quays late in the evening and it stated 18 minutes for the next one. About 5 minutes later it showed up. Thankfully I was paying attention and was able to put my hand out, but I certainly wasn't expecting it.

    Seems to be such a simple thing that is constantly broken.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,864 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,920 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer



    There was an IT glitch for the DB times for the last few weeks seemingly - it was only displaying the scheduled times rather than applying the predictive times to the live position of each bus.

    They fixed it this week and it is now displaying live times again.

    This notice gave a brief explanation.

    https://www.dublinbus.ie/News-Centre/General-News-Archive/RPTI-Customer-Update/

    For info, at any stage you can see where a bus physically is by looking back along the route on the map on the TFI real time app, and clicking on the bus symbols, as they do still tend to appear even when the link is broken to the predictive times. It’s a clunky way of checking if and when the system is defective.

    Click on the three vertical dots towards the bottom of the map and make sure that the “show live vehicle positions” is activated.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    That is a monumental f... up. It appears the issue wasn't even spotted for some time, though the passengers at bus stops probably did.

    Once these things become standard they must be up 24/7.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,709 ✭✭✭jd


    Saw this in the Indo.


    It talks about a massive new bus depot and charging station that could house the entire Dublin Bus and Bus Éireann fleets. Doubt that would work operationally?



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,398 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    That's the biggest load of auld cobblers I've heard in a long time. Another way of putting that headline would be "small time developer begs CIE to swap subprime land for some of the most expensive land in Dublin." And as you mention, that's before you go near the operational aspect of things, with the inevitable impacts on start times due to only having one depot, which is no where near the majority of the route.

    "MPL would allow eight months for CIÉ to run a public procurement process", lol.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,920 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Agreed - it’s utter tripe.

    One single garage location for the entire city?

    Nuts.

    I wouldn’t give it a moment’s consideration.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,228 ✭✭✭gjim


    Lol - what a chancer. Offering to sell green belt land (with no development potential) for 160k per acre? While claiming this is a 40% reduction in price vs land in an area which allows "general development". Well, yes, but you're not really comparing like with like are you?

    Having a single consolidated bus depot/garage is a farcical idea. Dublin bus operates about 1000 buses - lined up touching bumper-to-bumper is over 10km. All leaving from one site in the morning before returning in the evening? Not even remotely possible.

    How does this type of nonsense get into the papers?

    I do think there's merit to moving the city centre depots out of the centre without consolidating them, 'though. Donnybrook, Conyngham Rd, Grand Canal Dock/Ringsend Road, Broadstone, etc. should all be densely developed with residential and maybe some office/retail - it's a waste to use precious city centre land like this as a surface park for busses.

    And it would benefit DB - they'd free up a huge amount of capital by exchanging high-value city centre land for say cheap sites in the semi-industrial fringes of the M50 or in the port.

    I remembered reading something about this so googled it and a number of news articles came back: one from last year, and one from 2004, so I guess it's just another one of these reasonable sounding ideas that get floated every decade or so but never goes anywhere.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,920 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    This repeated idea of moving all bus depots out to M50 locations isn’t that reasonable to be honest, as it takes no account of the impact and cost it would have for day-to-day operations of the bus service. Bizarrely enough, you need a mix of garage locations to run a bus service efficiently - some at outer locations and some at inner locations.

    You have to remember that buses start and finish their working day at outer termini but also across the inner city too.

    Yes, you could probably close one or two of the smaller depots like say Conyngham Road, but the likes of Donnybrook in particular is a strategic transport infrastructure asset. Of all the depots, that location in particular allows quick access to both the city centre and the outer termini.

    I think that there is far more merit in considering the option put forward by Ray Coyne of Dublin Bus a while back, which was that as the fleet is converted to all electric, and noise and fumes therefore become far less of an issue, that the possibility of large scale development and building over some of the depots be examined. That way, you don't lose operational flexibility, and you get the ability to add mixed use residential above them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,319 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    There is certainly some consideration needed to intensification of development at the bus depots even if they remain in place.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Apart from the introduction of two of the spines, and construction on the bus interchanges at Red Cow and Liffey Valley, has there been any progress made on this never-ending project?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,920 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Three phases of the new network have been implemented now.

    The first two planning applications for the twelve corridors have been submitted to An Bord Pleanála.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,242 ✭✭✭p_haugh


    Will any work be done on the Dundrum LUAS terminus in preparation for phase 5/bus connects as a whole, I wonder? I know it will only be the 74 and L25, along with the other existing routes using it as a terminus come October, but once all phases are done there will be 8 routes using it, with 5 of them terminating there (2 of them being high frequency spine routes). Currently it's quite a mess, especially at rush hour. It could definitely do with some form of reorganization/expansion imo



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,920 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    The 74 and L25 won’t use the existing terminus, but rather I understand will use a new bay on the bypass by the old shopping centre. There’s not enough space for them at the current terminus.

    You’re completely right - it is a mess and God knows what it’ll be like with both the A2 and A4 terminating there.

    Post edited by LXFlyer on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,761 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    A Liffey Valley style bus station should be a condition of any future redevelopment of the old shopping centre in Dundrum IMO



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,920 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Just to add a further point - this will mean that people transferring between the L25 and S6 will have to walk from the Dundrum by-pass to either Taney Road or Upper Churchtown Road to transfer unless they are planning for the S6 to loop around the terminus, which would add to overall journey times somewhat, as it already takes the 14 an age to get out of the terminus onto Taney Road.

    I was also told previously that the space under the bridge is unavailable for use as part of the bus station which makes options for redesign very limited.

    To be honest, I have serious reservations about the realignment of the orbital routes in Dundrum. For a start, the routes are all being moved away from the Dundrum Town Centre, the main source of all public transport use in the area. The S8 replacing the 175, completely misses the main source of traffic for the route and the entire area, which is Dundrum Town Centre. Passengers using the 175 currently to go from Knocklyon or Ballyboden to Dundrum may now have an extended wait for a 74 (at least until the A2 is implemented) to complete their journey as frequencies don't match, and those going to UCD will have to use an alternative route from their areas to connect with the S6.

    Personally, I would have changed the proposed orbitals so that they would intersect at Dundrum and actually serve Dundrum Town Centre:

    S6 - Change route to Tallaght to Dún Laoghaire and take the planned L25 route to Dún Laoghaire

    S8 - Change route to Citywest to Blackrock - use the 74 route from Grange Road to Dundrum and then as per planned S6

    L25 - Still be Dundrum to Dún Laoghaire - Change routing to operate via Sandyford Road, Balally and then proposed S8 route to Dún Laoghaire.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,645 ✭✭✭Qrt


    Does anybody have any info about the 65b, why it exists and why it’s both such an odd routing and bad frequency?

    it’s always busy at peak, there’s definitely a lot of demand for more services.


    bring on the A3



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,920 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Why does any bus route exist? A need was identified for it.

    The 65b was originally a variant of the 65 that was established to provide a bus service for Killinarden estate when it was built, and then subsequently was extended to Citywest.

    It was re-routed from the N81 west of Spawell as a result of Network Direct to provide a direct service to and from the city centre for residents living south of Killininny Road. Other routes link Firhouse with Tallaght, so it could then route direct via Firhouse Road West to Killinarden and Citywest.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,645 ✭✭✭Qrt


    Thank you. It’s seems a fairly odd outlier in routes these days, useful but only to a certain point.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Which routes do the two planning applications apply to?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,920 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,242 ✭✭✭p_haugh


    So I had reason to be in Liffey Valley today and spotted this after getting off at the stop on the N4 and walking up the ramp:

    Going by the plans, this seems to be additional lay-bys. However , the main terminus doesn't seem to have started construction yet, so maybe this will be used as the temporary terminus of the G-spine for now? And yes, those are 4 traffic light poles for a pedestrian crossing of a cycle track.

    For reference, here it is (in red), Vs the location of the proposed main terminus (blue)




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,528 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    I just noticed today that the compulsory purchase order site notices have gone up on the Navan Road.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Had to use the bus at the weekend through no fault of my own. Left waiting for over a half hour in the middle of the day on on the new, great shiny routes populated by those C nummebrs

    Real time info showed the buses as running despite them being curtailed due to staff shortages. Still a clownshow. I'll be back in the motor soon, thank god.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,645 ✭✭✭Qrt


    What the hell is that…sure you’d break your neck just looking up at the lights.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,920 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Did you use the TFI app? That shows cancellations and curtailments.

    Unfortunately like every company in the country at the moment, the bus companies are suffering serious staff shortages due to the current Covid wave.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Rough translation: It's your fault for believing that the information displayed was anything other than BS 😂

    This may come as a shock to you and assorted public sector bods but people who don't use public transport regularly dont download the crappy apps just to double check the public display.



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