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Buffalo mass shooting - Great Replacement Theory & the long trail of blood

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,456 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Nor is Oscar Isaac white **** skinned. Jesus Christ.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Emigration and immigration are a natural consequence of life. To improve their chance of survival people move to areas with more access with the resources to survive. In the 21st century that's jobs and improved living conditions, 10,000 years ago it was richer hunting grounds. It has always been the case and will always be the case. An added benefit being increased genetic diversity as genes are mixed and increased technological and cultural diversity as ideas are mixed. A culture that is static and unchanging is doomed to failure and a gene pool that is static and unchanging is doomed to ill health. For example, Ireland with the lowest genetic diversity in Europe has the highest rates of genetic diseases such as Cystic Fibrosis and others. A trend that is amplified in the west, away from coastal areas.

    On a related note, the obsession with skin tone is purely down to it being the most obvious marker of genetic difference, however skin tone is essentially only the outcome of a battle between Folic Acid and Vitamin D. On the broader scheme of things only represents a tiny amount of genetic variation. The entire genetic diversity in Eurasians is largely a subset of that in Africans, and 2 separate African populations will likely share more genetic characteristics with Eurasians than with each other.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,211 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Genuine question - what do you consider as a white person?

    If Oscar Isaac turned around and said he considers himself white would you tell him hes not white? What is the criteria here? How white does one have to be? This has all the hallmarks of US style racial gatekeeping from yourself. Next you'll be telling us Italians arent white, X Y and Z arent white.



  • Posts: 5,869 [Deleted User]


    There are about 4 million births in Europe each year.

    There are fewer than 1 million immigrants in Europe each year.

    Your logic is flawed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Aaaand another one disenganges when they realise that their position is untenable.



  • Registered Users Posts: 170 ✭✭Mr_Jacko


    Ah here comes the Anti-Semitism bringing poor old Soros into it them god dam GLOBALISTS! look at what Soros and his foundations actually do he is very open about it.

    Have you any proof for your claim that multicultural societies don't "band together" Europe as we know it is literally a multicultural society Rome was full of slaves and migrants who eventually were given citizenship. Spain was once full of Muslims and thrived as an Islamic emirate were people of all backgrounds co-existed peacefully among one another. Ireland has had the Normans and British invade us they all seem to be contributing to society and aren't opposing the government. Plenty of Irish people who are of Anglo background and live peacefully here and contribute to the economy.

    Even more recently Germany with it's influx of migrants from war-torn regions such as Syria are now thriving. The vast majority of Syrians are proud to be in Germany and have integrated into society and are proud German citizens. Problem seems to be the far-right's backward thinking just because some bad eggs carry out horrific acts of violence it represents all migrants which couldn't be further from the truth. This constant fear-mongering from far right commentators you can guess who is what is stopping us from making real progress and reaching our full potential.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    That's gas. The reactionary right took an Irish language chart from 1800 to 1900 and used to to further advance their Great Replacement conspiracy.

    Complete charlatans. God help anyone who falls for this nonsense



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,211 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Actually non-EU immigration into EU is over 2million per year, 2020 due to covid it was 1.9mil which was a notable decrease on previous year

    And though you are trying to equate more births than immigrants per year as nothing being replaced, reality is that EU birthrates are declining and already sub-replacement level, so as population declines immigrants will be replacing aging EU populace.

    And finally, as for the births in Europe themselves, year on year more of those births are from foreign-born mothers compared to EU-born mothers. From eurostat:




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    So the current levels of non European immigration to Europe are, in fact, the norm, going back through modern history?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,456 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    The definition, imho, doesn't include Óscar Isaac Hernández Estrada. Born in Guatemala to a Guatemalan mother and a Cuban father, he and they naturalized as a 1st generation American family when he grew up.

    I'm not gatekeeping anything, this is simply how the US (racist in institution as it may well be) classifies the population in census data. I would think of Oscar Isaac as non-white first, but as he jokes, the hollywood producers picked his 2 whitest names and he is 'ethnically ambiguous,' acknowledging that he's been cast recently as an Egyptian-themed superhero (Marc Spector aka. Moon Knight is a Jewish-American who is assumed as the avatar of Khonshu, an egyptian diety based on IRL Khonsu):


    So US stats are a mess. As it pertains to GRT though 'white' refers to the definition favored by white supremacists.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 394 ✭✭Miadhc


    Well I wonder Coveney himself said on Ireland 2040 plan : over the next 20 years the population of Ireland will certainly grow by over a million people, linked to that estimate will be that half of that number of people won't have been born in Ireland.



  • Posts: 5,869 [Deleted User]


    Pretty rich seeing as it is you who has refused to answer a simple question, twice now at this stage, when they did it for you in good faith.

    Why should anyone bother engaging with you if it's all one-way traffic?



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,185 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    That's an extremely dubious statement to make and one very much more of today's politics than history(just like in the past you'd find the opposite statement made.

    It's more complex than that, however the most successful and stable societies in history tended to be quite the opposite of "diverse". When diversity showed up it was pretty much always at the point of a sword. Babylon a good example. It was ruled and fought over by a succession of peoples from the area who were pretty closely related culturally anyway. Egypt was very local Egyptian and when it wasn't it was because of invaders from the south(Kush) or later Greeks and Italians eyeing up the place again at the point of a sword. At the height of her Powers Egypt was local Egyptian.

    The Greek city states that gave us so much were even more demographically insular. They could barely tolerate the other city states and saw each other as oddballs never mind non Greek outsiders. The Greek barboros where we get barbarian they applied to anyone who was "other" and a non Greek speaker. When they speak of other cultures and peoples it tends to be of the "ah bless, they think they're people" type of thing.

    Rome by dint of being an empire was more "multicultural" alright but very much with an over reaching mother culture that brooked little to no dissent from the "other" and tended to get stabby if the idea of Roman was in danger of being diluted. One reason early Christians were made dietary supplements for lions was because the religion was seen as "Un-Roman". And where they invaded and conquered the natives who "became more Roman than the Romans themselves" as it were became the new middle class and local rulers. Similar setup for the later Islamic empire. Similar setup for the Chinese empire(even today with her 50 ethnicities it's the Han that run the place).

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Why the "modern" qualifier. It was up to the 17th century, took a brief hiatus and has returned to normal again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,211 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Wibbs original post chastised the US definition of white for being deliberately obtuse and needlessly exclusive anyways, so trying to use US census categories to refute him??? Seems like you are propping up the very same discriminatory ethnic/racial classes that Wibbs was criticising.

    Point is, someone who is Hispanic could easily be white also, Hispanic is more of a cultural category than racial (if such a thing even can be defined). To say that Brazilians arent white? Colombians? Chileans? Argentinians? Lovely people, but if you met one who looked like Oscar Isaac and told them they were not white you'd get a fist square in the jaw.

    And all of this just serves to point out how stupid and inherently racist the Great replacement theory is anyways, its all centered on white people being replaced, but in the US the so called replacement is by hispanic white people!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,456 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    They didn't even 'disengage' they just laid out terms for Dyr to answer something and because in his head, he'd already chosen not to, he saw it as disengaging. Powerful gymnast of the mind.




  • Registered Users Posts: 5 TeamOfMe


    Great Replacement Theory is about dilution and change, and comes from western domination and a globalisation that moves away from national identity.

    Doesn't make shootings right.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Really, up to the 17th century you say? Expand this sounds interesting.



  • Posts: 5,869 [Deleted User]


    People born to non-European parents, in Europe, are, by definition, European.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 394 ✭✭Miadhc



    2011 Eurostat statistics on Ireland's demographics suggested that by 2061, half of all under 14-year-olds will have a migrant background (45.1% across all age ranges).

    https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/en/web/products-statistical-working-papers/-/KS-RA-11-019



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,438 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    When does one become a "European"?

    If you are born in Europe?

    If your Parents were born in Europe?

    If you have a passport from a European Country?

    What's the definition we are using here?

    Or are we actually asking about White vs. Non White??

    Or perhaps Christian vs. Non Christian (Muslim Specifically)??



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 40,130 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,456 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Wibbs original post chastised the US definition of white for being deliberately obtuse and needlessly exclusive anyways, so trying to use US census categories to refute him??? Seems like you are propping up the very same discriminatory ethnic/racial classes that Wibbs was criticising.

    Maybe I am just a product of the culture then. But so are the killers (and so is Oscar Isaac tbf). I'm more of a 'prefer not to answer' respondent on questionnaires.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Was it these questions:

    "Have we seen Europe's population treble overnight? Have we seen 1.5 billion immigrants into Europe in recent years?

    Answer yes or no and support your answer."

    Are they not rhetorical questons? Because the answer is obviously "no" to both but it they make no sense to answer as no one has made either of those claims. Bit odd really.

    Anyway you were going to respond to this I beleive: Now that you've accepted the term "replacement" is accurate in this scenario, you can go on to try and explain how a declining European population and rising non European population in a European majority country cannot also be described as a replacement of one demographic with the other. As in "Europeans are being replaced by non Europeans"



  • Registered Users Posts: 394 ✭✭Miadhc




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,476 ✭✭✭✭Ush1


    Nobody defended anything as nothing like your definition of replacement exists. Reductio ad absurdum.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,456 ✭✭✭✭Overheal




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 40,130 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    That's the premise of the Great Replacement Theory.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,211 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Well based on Eurostats definition you are European if you are a European citizen. So those children of non-european may be citizens themselves depending on the countries citizenship laws, not many countries have birthright citizenship.

    Why Christian vs Non Christian or Muslim? What have you got against Islam?



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,438 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    When does someone stop having "a migrant background" ?

    2 Generations ? 3?

    By 2061 , the children of today will be Grandparents so those U14's could possibly be the 3rd or 4th Generation of their families born in Ireland - Are they still migrants???



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,456 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    In reference to the ease with which non muslim refugees are accepted vs. muslim refugees perhaps.



  • Registered Users Posts: 394 ✭✭Miadhc


    @Overheal @ancapailldorcha


    What's the demographics like in the Irish town you lads live in?


    Now I'm assuming you both do live here, seeing as you are both so passionate about forcing mass immigration into Ireland?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,211 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    No they are not. European in the eyes of Eurostat refers to citizenship. You do not get European citizenship by birthright alone - countries have their own restrictions on it, but few if any have true birthright citizenship on country's soil.

    Ireland has one of the laxest laws on birthright citizenship in the EU actually, most countries do not have any birthright clauses aside from those who are stateless at birth.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,476 ✭✭✭✭Ush1


    The Great Replacement Theory details "white" people being physically taken from their country of origin and placed elsewhere?

    Can we get an interview with one of these lads who was snatched from Cork and air dropped into deepest Africa?



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,185 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Even in Ireland the vast majority of inward immigration in the last twenty years has been other "White" Europeans. If we add up the Poles, Germans, French, Spanish, British etc that have come here, the vast majority of whom are pale of skin they completely dwarf the African and East Asian demographics.

    Personally I don't go by the "White" label. I'd see world populations as very roughly African, IndoEuropean, Asian*. Under the IndoEuropean umbrella I'd include Swedes and Persians and Italians and Indians. The majority of modern Europeans can trace their ancestry back to Middle Eastern farmers. Another factor would be admixtures from archaic humans which also follow these labels. EG Africans have almost no Neandertal DNA, IndoEuropeans have the most, Asians have Neandertal DNA but different sequences and they also have bits of Denisovan DNA, which neither Africans, nor Europeans have.



    *The natives of the Americas are an offshoot of north east Asian, though there may have been some Western European in the mix.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,456 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Oh, so you haven't read the thread. I will ignore you until you do then, wouldn't want to distract you while reading 300 posts.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 40,130 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I suggest you research your own arguments rather than expecting me to do it.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,211 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Read the paper before you start asking questions that the paper itself answers, maybe.

    Migrant background refers to 1st and 2nd gen migrants only. Its all there in the paper he linked.



  • Registered Users Posts: 394 ✭✭Miadhc


    Correct I haven't read the whole thread and by the looks of things I haven't missed much. A lot of wordplay and the best argument I've seen against a replacement happening is "ah sure they'll be Europeans too because they are born in Europe"



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,438 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Ireland no longer has "birth-right citizenship" and hasn't for the guts of 20 years (McDowell and the PD's introduced the change)

    Being "born" here does not automatically confer citizenship anymore.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,456 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Correct I haven't read the whole thread

    Get on with it then.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,298 ✭✭✭Kaybaykwah


    Underneath all this violence is the constant barrage of patriotic ideology that pushes a "stand your ground at all costs" posture in the US. If you’re not ready to defend yourself and your family, you are not worth the mud you stand on. There is a relentless effort at this preparedness against invaders and the resulting preemptive strikes on innocent people. To make things worse, shameless ideologues with nary a neuron like Carlson have been dividing society for profit for a very long time.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,185 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    If they look like the native population that background fades pretty quickly. A generation at most. If they don't not nearly so much. This is the problem with the multicultural dream and IMHO it is a dream and dreams are nice, but one not born out by reality. You might have a [insert nation here] passport, but if you don't look like you're from [insert nation here] it gets a lot more complex. Look at the UK. The kids of the AfroCaribbean folks who went to the UK in the 40's and 50's were rioting in Brixton in the 1970's because they well knew it was BS. Their kids and grandkids went on BLM marches in the UK because they well know it's BS. British but not quite "British" enough for quite a large percentage of the population. Unless they win medals at sports or hit the Top of The Pops, then they become more "British" alright. Even the pale faced actor Peter O'Toole said that he noticed if he won some acting gong or other he was "British", but if he woke up in the papers for hellraising he became "Irish".

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,456 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    •  Ireland: On 1 January 2005, the law was amended to require that at least one of the parents be an Irish citizen; a British citizen; a resident with a permanent right to reside in Ireland or in Northern Ireland; or a legal resident residing three of the last four years in the country (excluding students and asylum seekers) (see Irish nationality law).[47] The amendment was prompted by the case of Man Chen, a Chinese woman living in mainland United Kingdom who travelled to Belfast (Northern Ireland, part of the UK) to give birth in order to benefit from the previous rule whereby anyone born on any part of the island of Ireland was automatically granted Irish citizenship. The Chinese parents used their daughter's Irish (and thereby European Union) citizenship to obtain permanent residence in the UK as parents of a dependent EU citizen. Ireland was the last country in Europe to abolish unrestricted jus soli. (see Irish nationality law).[citation needed]

    So it's still Jus Soli, with caveats.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    I see the lads have given up on trying to redefine "replacement" to redefining what "European" and "non European" means


    All terribly predictable.😂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,476 ✭✭✭✭Ush1


    You're the one calling people racists and neo Nazi defenders.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Your chances of integrating into the native population are near zero when you grow up in an ethnic enclave or an place where the natives are scarce on the ground. Of course, growing up resenting the host country from the get go doesnt help either. (o hai France)



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I presume you understand where the Greeks got their Labour?

    And Roman Culture was a mix of Etruscan, Phonecian, Greek, Judasim and a bit of whatever your having yourself, and that's before the Goths, the Vsigoths, the Allans, the Huns etc migrated into Roman territory and subsequently blended into the culture of the area they migrated into.

    The locals may have expressed a fear of the "other", but the "other" came anyway



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,438 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Surely if we are to accept that "Europeans are being replaced" we have to understand what a "European" is first?

    Stop dancing around it man - Say what you mean , You don't like the idea of black people and muslims in your town.

    Because as Wibbs says above , if the "Non Europeans" were all Ukrainians or Moldovans or whatever you wouldn't even notice them after a while when the accents start to soften.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,467 ✭✭✭mikethecop


    Race isnt really the issue though , its culture, religion ethnicity etc etc

    only the most simplistic people start threads here so that they can scream racist at any one who doesn't blindly agree with them or dare to ask a question

    that is the boards way after all



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