Munster Team Talk Thread - Beirne After Reading

Phog's who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones

Do you remember the time you got in such a hissy fit with something I said here that you took a screenshot of the post to share on Twitter?

:)

Ah it's massive. In a game that tight, having Beirne and Snyman instead of Kleyn and Wycherley, or bringing Coombes off the bench against tired bodies instead of Jack Daly, you'd have to think it could have been the difference.

(That said, Toulouse were missing a good few players too)

If Munster can just turn out a few decent front-rowers, things are looking very bright.

Yeah, they were missing Guitoune, Chocobares, Nanai-Williams and Bonneval all from the 3/4 line, plus Zack Holmes who would have been the sub out-half.

DDA is a huge loss. Back in training, probably doesn't mean Gav will be available.

it might be a dead rubber but I wouldn't say it's a damp squid from Leinster's perspective. It's an opportunity to turn up and perform.

Those numbers are world class. It's going to be very difficult to leave O'Mahony on the bench in NZ with that kind of form.

Agreed, tbh. The received wisdom previously seemed to be that you can’t have POM and VDF in the same back-row as you lose too much with regards carrying. But that’s an area VDF has significantly improved.

In that sense, there’s a strong argument for 6. POM 7. VDF and 8. Conan / Doris.

Yeah I agree. With two ball carriers in the backrow it makes sense. You're gaining security on your own ball at the lineout as well as putting pressure on the opposition's. Plus, having a breakdown threat is always beneficial, regardless of what defensive system you play.

When you consider how we resource our rucks for Ireland though, low numbers with strong arrivals, I’m not sure just how big the ruck arrivals are tbh. I reckon he’ll start a game all right, but I’d tend to agree with Stephen on how he suits Munster more than Ireland right now. How quick does he reload into position, how is his decision making in terms of his lines of running, passing, ruck entries etc? That stuff is probably more important than other elements.

I’m not saying he isn’t good there, but the strengths in his game are well known. He works hard, is good at the line out (both ours and opposition), he’s great at the ruck and he has shown serious handling abilities. However the problem with the last one is the frequency that we see it. It’s not that often. He’s also a guy who can come up with big, big moments. But almost all of those are defensive. We don’t win vs NZ in 2018 without him. He was awesome that day. But we’re a different team now. We are far more about imposing our attacking game on the opposition than ever before. And while I’ve seen POM throw some amazing offloads, I’m not sure how often I’ve seen him running strong decoy lines, picking good options when attacking the line and all of that kind of thing.

Ruddock isn’t in a dissimilar position. Has played some great stuff in the last few years but just isn’t the player that suits the style. POM is a lot closer to it that Ruddock is, but the general idea is the same I think.

I'd disagree here molloy; surely ruck arrivals are imperative for the higher tempo game Ireland are trying to play? POM has always been at the top of stats for arrivals and speed any time I've seen them. (I'd love to see far more ruck stats tbh, as it's such an integral part of the game).

He's far better than just good at the lineout, to be fair. I see where you're coming from with regards decoy lines etc, tho.

One other point I'd make is that his turnover threat is so good, that could give us a platform for attacking against unstructured defence. (Tho more often than not, I'd say it gets blown for a pen, rather than securing direct turnover ball)

Overall tho, I think Doris' and Conan's form isn't quite where it was 6-12 months ago, whereas POM has significantly improved his, so I think it's a lot closer of a decision than it has been recently.

Ruck arrivals are imperative, but when you factor in the number of ruck arrivals (the low numbers committed), POM won’t be hitting rucks as frequently. Take the scenario where for Munster POM is one of 3 or more arrivals at a ruck and that happens 10 times in a game, then that’s 10 arrivals (but 30 in total where he could be anywhere from 1st to 3rd). For Ireland we wouldn’t have as many with 3 or more arrivals. We limit it to 1 or 2 if at all possible. So being 1 of 3 ten times in a game for Munster may only equate to 1 of 2 six or seven times for Ireland. The other 3 or 4 he’s out in the line somewhere. So it’s slightly less important then. And arguably more important is the manner of his arrival when he does (not that that’s an issue).

The use of “good” at the line out was just because I didn’t want to repeat “great” a few times. He’s great there!

The ref has such a big impact on the breakdown that I’d be wary of POMs jackal threat as being a positive. There were def a few cases against Toulouse where he went onto his hands before coming back for the ball. Another ref would have pinged him for that. But then maybe he wouldn’t have done it with another ref too I suppose.

Ah yeah, take that massively simplistic, inaccurate and polarised view of a post why don’t you. Don’t even attempt to engage in discussion on a discussion forum. Sure that wouldn’t make any sense now would it?