F1 2022 thread - see post 1 for rules

It's ridiculous alright.whats the significance of the nosering? Is it one tou can't just put back in again after the race?

Pretty shocking display of ego. But that's one of the qualities that makes them top drivers. And like him or not, he is (maybe was) one of the very best.

Silly protest. He'll play the victim, but he'll play ball in the end.

Ah, maybe. Maybe he was only average in a brilliant car (which would make Rosberg, Button, Alonso only average drivers too since he bested them over their times together)

I think he has been an exceptional driver. I don't get into nonsense like The GOAT or any of that. The chances that Russell has jumped in the car an is matching/marginally beating an exception driver, are remote. I think it's likely he has lost pace. He's an old driver now. Surprised he has kept it so consistent for this long.

He has always managed to pull something special out of the bag. But this year it's not happening. I think he's different this year nsd I think it's probably him losing pace.

Sure that's the alternative way to view it when the normal way to view it doesn’t suit your argument. Hamilton scored 15 points less than Button over thier 3 years together. And Hamilton beat Button in 2 of those 3 years, which his his normal way to measure it.

So it was very close over 3 seasons together. Does that make Hamilton and Button, average drivers both?

Sure. And by that logic, Kubica infinity outscored Russell so was Kubica better than Russel? Anyone who watched them as teammates knows that's not the defining metric.

What's your point in relation to my original post about his relative performance with teammates and his overall standing as a driver? He bested those teammates (or was about even with Button if you use the total points instead of season positions). So what's your point?

Funny, I thought you'd have been the first to point out that Hamilton outscored Rosberg over their time together by the bare 140 points. That metric only counts sometimes. You must teach me the rules.

Yep and one of those years, 2011, they had arguably the best car in the grid, with Button finishing second in the WDC behind only Vettel who's driving was untouchable, well ahead of the other Red Bull and of Hamilton. Vettel or Alonso in that McLaren would have been champion easily. People thought Button was going to be destroyed coming into McLaren as an outsider but in the end he outscored Lewis over three years and Lewis ended up leaving the team with his tail between his legs. He then went on to partner up with Rosberg who was never anything more than an average midfield driver and everyone again expected him to be destroyed by Hamilton, yet in the end there was nothing between those two either and Nico beat Lewis to the championship before retiring.

The mental gymnastics some people will do to justify their deifying of Hamilton just because since then he won a lot in the most dominant car in F1 history and with a subservient teammate in what has otherwise been a not particularly remarkable career is astonishing at times. Now he isn't in a dominant car and he doesn't have a third rate teammate, once again he's coming off second best and people are finding new excuses to justify it. The inconvenient truth is that in his entire F1 career Bottas and Kovalainen are the only drivers Hamilton has ever actually consistently beaten without a massive car advantage, so it's no surprise to see a half decent driver like Russell outperforming him.

And it's utterly laughable to claim he "bested" Alonso without mentioning the internal politics of McLaren at the time, Ron Dennis literally saying it was his goal for Lewis to beat Alonso, Alonso getting on the wrong side of the team because he cooperated with the FIA's investigation into the cheating, stealing and corruption that was going on at McLaren while Lewis showed he was a good little soldier by keeping quiet, a trait that he continued to show later in his McLaren career when he was caught intentionally lying to stewards to get other drivers penalised, for which a member of middle management fell on his sword to cover for Ron's golden boy.

Oh no, what have I started 😂

For the record, I do think Hamilton is an exceptional driver. However, I don't think he's automatically the GOAT just because of the records he's accumulated. Of the 6 championships he won with Mercedes he only had to realistically beat 2 drivers, so they don't count for an awful lot in my mind. The fact that he matched Alonso is actually the main reason I rate him so highly. Many will say that Alonso was hampered by all the shenanigans that year, but nevertheless, to be so close in your rookie season to a guy who obliterated most of his team mates is impressive!

Danny Ric looks like a serial killer

Sure thing. Get back to me if you ever figure when to compare drivers using seasons won or total points. Can I assume it's whichever method leads to the conclusion you're hoping to reach rather than any kind of consistent standard?

Now that they're not driving the same car and we can't accurately judge the relative pace of their cars, is the time to compare them as drivers? What conclusions have you drawn?

Nottas was always a decebt driver. I said it last year when this thread thought he was bottom tier and I think he's a decent driver job. Not elite, but among the top of the middle tier drivers. Must be enjoying having a pay driver teammate rather than a top tier driver for a change. Looks like he's enjoying himself this year.