Fall of the Catholic Church

The issue as I see it is that it should never again matter what the Catholic Church or any other private organisation is doing in terms of its own private internal agendas.

They’re are private organisations and simply shouldn’t be running public services in a secular state where freedom of religion, including freedom not to be religious should simply be something we can all take for granted.

What the Catholic Church or any other church does with its internal politics or whether it fizzles or not isn’t anything to do with me and I don’t want it intruding on my life or interactions with public services.

There’s nothing anti religious about being secular. It’s simply saying it’s a private matter and not the concern of the state but also that the state is not the concern of religious organisations.

We’re still mired in legacy issues in education and aspects of healthcare.

Just on Casey and the internet.

Imagine the abuse Annie Murphy would be getting here if Boards was around back then. Plenty of the usual suspects would be queuing up to make it all her fault (as some did in real life)

'I believe that religion should have no public expression in society, and should be regulated to the inside of people's homes'

How could that be enforced. If someone stages a gallery showing of religious art do you send police to shut it down and arrest the organisers?

I think it was both sides to be honest. Radio phone-in shows were the boards.ie of the time back then I remember a lot of these type of issues getting a lot of support and backlash. That said, I'm prety sure the radio stations paid actors to phone in and troll people so as to generate more calls and interest.

As I said, this is the time when people were questioning morals rather than blindly accepting them, so I dont think she's have gotten as much backlash as you'd think.

That’s a somewhat parallel issue though. Organisations fail, corruption happens and they certainly can have issues, but publicly run bodies are accountable, or at least can be made to be when they’re well structured and regulated and are ultimately accountable though open politics in free, democratic societies like ours.

Yes, they can go wrong but they are reformable, repairable and can be designed to be transparent and inherently safe.

The problem with a private, religious run organisation is nobody except the religious community can achieve that. It sees itself as answerable to its own rules and ultimately to some hierarchy that sees itself as answerable to a deity. It may have agendas that are not aligned with the public good or with democratic choices made by a society, such as agendas to evangelise or drive particular social policies, as we have found out here around the institutions.

That isn’t any way to run a public service in a democratic society.

I seriously doubt they would have known. The Chruch would have most definitely kept this on a need-to-know basis.

Also, some of them may have been doing some genuinely positive and helpful work within their communities and may have said nothing for the greater good. Not saying that was the right option though.

The political parties have distanced themselves from the church and don't preach. They sell. The sell ideas but are very open in the fact that we are the ones who choose. As an elective, we can make or break politicians. They are, to some degree, answerable to us.

I mean, we had an openly gay Taoiseacht - who was elected and crticised based on his ideas and acts, not his orientation.

The public domain isn't a controlled space as per the Irish Constitution. Members of the public just have the right to free expression.

In Spain and Portugal there are annual corpus christi marches through towns and villages since the 13th century. They won't restrict themselves voluntarily so...?

No point in trying to play the victim

Just to return to the article, the author links the scandals to the decline of the church, which I don't wholly agree with. It's much more complicated than that.

In an alternate Ireland that wasn't scandalised by the wrongdoing of the Church, I believe that the church would still have a greatly diminished role as secularisation would have continued - driven by other forces (media, internet, atomisation of society etc).

We shouldn't let so much power fall into the hands of those that are unaccountable. It's hard to say that we have lived that good advice, because it looks like we've substituted the Church with the corporation.

Is Ireland a kinder place than the 90's?

I meant politics is a nessecary evil.

I also thought you meant politicians in general rather than specific, but same reason. Back in the day, people voted FF or FG as they were told by their family, so corruption had no consequences. Now, that's far less likely to be the case. Votes can not be taken for granted.