Power gone to the head of Minister for Justice

Markus Antonius · 03-05-2022 11:36PM #1

Has anyone noticed the Minister for Justice, Helen McEntee pushing the boundaries further and further when it comes to trivialising people's privacy? And it's purely to boost her profile too which is the worst thing - taking a hardline approach, a "you have nothing fear if you have nothing to hide" approach to bolster her tough female politician image.

There have been more than a few instances in the past few months including this recent one of entering a europe-wide deal to share facial recognition data of those "suspected of committing a crime", not just criminals but even those simply suspected of doing so, which more or less could be anyone:

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40862525.html

But one that really sent shivers down my spine was an interview of Helen McEntee about two weeks ago when speaking about giving more powers to Gardai. She said "people's right to privacy is not as important as detecting crime"

https://www.rte.ie/news/2022/0411/1291550-garda-agsi-conference/

There are very few lines that could have come out of her mouth that would be more sinister than this.

Faugheen · 04-05-2022 12:03AM

All in favour of not catching criminals then.

The second piece was clearly in response to the ruling around the Graham Dwyer phone data issue. Didn't realise you were in favour of letting murderers roam the streets, OP.

But no, Helen McEntee is the big bad witch in this case.

astrofool · 04-05-2022 12:11AM

Do tell and explain the more sinister lines that were said. Implying them does not make for good discussion.

Strumms · 04-05-2022 12:16AM

What next, she’d be advocating that Gardai can rock up to a house and demand to search it without a warrant or probable cause ? A typical FG head…

Padre_Pio · 04-05-2022 12:20AM

If you have nothing to hide you've nothing to fear.

Except everyone has something to hide, or at least keep private. The end does not always justify the means.

mikethecop · 04-05-2022 12:21AM

I don't think it would be a bad thing to say people's right to privicy is less important that preventing crime certinally.

A peados right to privacy definitely comes second to his right to stalk children on line or download child porn.

I do agree though that mcentee is way out of her depth as minister for justice and is comming out with some very stupid ideas with litte compression of the effects .

Overheal · 04-05-2022 12:30AM

There have been more than a few instances in the past few months including this recent one of entering a europe-wide deal to share facial recognition data of those "suspected of committing a crime", not just criminals but even those simply suspected of doing so, which more or less could be anyone

Well, in legal parlance, everyone is only Suspected of a crime, until they are Convicted of one. They are innocent until proven guilty, at least in most countries anyway. It wouldn't do much good if the system could only share the information long after the criminal had already been caught and convicted.

"people's right to privacy is not as important as detecting crime"

Yikes even in the US, conservative justices have noped that one.

Markus Antonius · 04-05-2022 01:13AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119012839#Comment_119012839

Yes but everyone's right to privacy shouldn't be shelved to allow a few pedos to be found - there are many other ways of catching them.

This is my very point, McEntee is making the lazy options viable for the gardai and citing recent (and rare) criminal cases as justification. The worst part is that it seems to garner her more support than criticism, which means she's only going to get worse.

Brucie Bonus · 04-05-2022 01:57AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119012837#Comment_119012837

Yep. Only works if we can trust the authorities. And we can't.

What marketing company would FF/FG be selling your data to?

How do we know another Garda whistle-blower won't be under surveillance?

Can we trust private data won't be used to help insurance companies, REITS, preferred bidders for state contracts over rival bidders? Opens up a whole new slew of "lessons learned" opportunities.

And of course common or garden black mail where something may not be illegal but private.

And who knows if the next Garda working with drug dealers won't pass on sensitive information?

Its never as simple as "if you've nothing to hide you've nothing to worry about".

There are checks and balances in place for a reason.

NSAman · 04-05-2022 02:27AM

Gdpr? If you can’t use video cameras outside your own property or publish that footage without breaking GDPR… how is this different? Sorry facial recognition is a disgusting intrusion into non-criminal peoples lives!

drunkmonkey · 04-05-2022 04:50AM

“We want to encourage people to come forwards, not to force anybody to have to give up their property or accommodation.”

I don't like her language, she doesn't want to force people, it implies if she wanted to she would and could, a dangerous woman with a god complex.

cuttingtimber22 · 04-05-2022 06:49AM

I am not quite sure I would make this about the Justice Minister herself.

But I think that a discussion on the broad issue of privacy is one that we should be having.

how far should facial recognition software go? Do we want community rating e.g. to ban people from public transport?
should an employer have access to someone’s search history? As mentioned above something may not be illegal but someone may make a moral judgementS
should a health insurer have access to your shopping activities to determine alcohol consumption? Note that banks categorise spending and sell this data on.
should a semi state company (an post) sell data on its customers?

Checks and balances are critical especially in this country where the vast majority of people cannot afford to use the court system.

_Kaiser_ · 04-05-2022 07:09AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119012922#Comment_119012922

It's not even that. She is just massively out of her depth and has been promoted to a position she should never have found herself in.

The woman has no real experience in anything beyond being a staffer for her father, was originally elected purely on parish pump name recognition when he died, and like Leo himself is part of the "New FG" more concerned with spin and soundbites, and chasing Twitter likes to boost their personal profiles in the pursuit of bigger and better things on their career bucket list.

It's not so much that she has a god complex than she is just bouncing from one half-baked kneejerk overreaction to the next, as she overcompensates to hide her inadequacies. But in a country where the MSM rarely questions most of it, never mind challenge it, she continues to fail upwards.

I fully expect her to become leader of FG yet and possibly even a future Taoiseach. We now live in a society where identity politics, quotas, box-ticking, and social media consensus matters above all else. We think things are bad now. Just wait until those things come to pass.

Cluedo Monopoly · 04-05-2022 07:36AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119013058#Comment_119013058

Totally agree. Completely out of her depth and is being found out.

Fandymo · 04-05-2022 09:41AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058244380/power-gone-to-the-head-of-minister-for-justice

FG invoking Joseph Goebbels. How surprising.

timmyntc · 04-05-2022 10:37AM

She doesnt seem to have any appreciation for rights and freedoms - gives the impression that they are an impediment to catching criminals and surveilling people, rather than protections for the average man and woman on the street.

The government should not be able to mass surveil people for the prevention of crime, nor should they be able to do as they please with people's own private property. Minister for Justice is not one of those wishy washy portfolios like environment or culture where you just have to be seen to be doing something, the policies you enact as MoJ have real and lasting consequences on the nation. Second only to Public Expenditure in terms of the damage that can be done if you dont take the role seriously - at least for Public Expenditure they tend to have something at least mathematically literate.

Galwayguy35 · 04-05-2022 11:08AM

Her appointment as Minister for Justice was just a box ticking exercise to show the Government were giving women more of the top jobs rather than any real ability to do the job.

Donald Trump · 04-05-2022 11:42AM

No point complaining now OP.

Sure George Soros and Bill Gates can already track you and read your mind using the magnets and chips they put into you with the so-called covid vaccine

04-05-2022 11:44AM

agree that generally this govt hasnt done much to merit trust with erosion of privacy

seeing a shinner raise it as if butter wouldn't melt is enough to make one shudder all the same

Absolute Zero · 04-05-2022 12:25PM

She's an odd ball alright. She broadcasts on Twitter that she made a TikTok account.

Does she even know TikTok is CCP owned and a data collection app? Very strange for a justice minister to be supporting the same regimen that also is allies with the Russians and dare I say helping to fund and supply their war in Ukraine.

Would she happen to be using her work mobile phone as well to record her videos. I honestly thought that if you were in her position you would know better such a shame, playpus ☹️

jmayo · 04-05-2022 01:12PM

Two people go for a job as minister of justice.

Person A has following credentials:

Studied economics, politics, and law at Dublin City University (DCU) for three before graduating in 2007.

After graduating worked for a subsidiary of Citibank.

Returned in 2010, to complete a Masters in Journalism and Media Communications at Griffith College. (private, third level higher education college)

Then was assistant to their TD father for two years.

Then stood in by election caused by father's death and won seat in 2013.

Won seat in next general election 2016 and given role of Minister of State for Mental Health and Older People.

A year later, 2017, was given role as Minister of State for European Affairs (and was part of Brexit team).

Was elected as Vice-President of the European People's Party (EPP) in Nov 2019.

Person B has following credentials:

Has a BCL Law degree from UCD.

Has a master's degree in law and an M.Phil. in criminology from Sidney Sussex College, Cambridge University.

Sidney college for anyone that doesn't know is one of the Cambridge colleges, ranked half way.

Has 4th highest ranking for Nobel prizes won by Cambridge alumni.

Has a barrister-at-law degree from the King's Inns.

In 2000 represented a taoiseach in defamation proceedings appearing with two future attorney generals.

Was made a senior counsel in 2008.

Represented many high-profile clients in defamation cases and was involved in two of Ireland's largest commercial court disputes.

Served as legal advisor to major political party for 5 years.

Was elected as Dublin city councilor.

Was elected to Dail in 2016 and made opposition Spokesperson for Justice and Equality, even drafting legislation that was passed by the Oireachtas and became an Act.

In 2020 was re-elected to Dail.

Leave out parties, leave out sexes and just look at CV.

Which person in 2020 was more suitable to be minister for justice?

Fandymo · 04-05-2022 01:20PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119014685#Comment_119014685

Person B. Easily. But you haven't factored in "image, quota's" etc.

mikethecop · 04-05-2022 01:52PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119012871#Comment_119012871

SO how do you isolate the people whos privacy doesn't matter from those who do ?

Online activity ranges from child porn to fraudsters to large and small scale drug dealing money laundering on an industrial scale with revolute all the way down to phone snatches . technology a part of the modern world and thus a part of the criminal world too.

the process to access information on a simple on line fraud scam is incredibly complex in both time and and money with warrants needed to access even the victims information because the banks dont want to cooperate. It could take months to investigate and trace information on something like two kids threatening each other on snapchat or similar only to be told that those companies dont recognize a warrant o court order from Irish courts . Making that easier faster and less impossible isnt a bad think.

Again i dont think she is capable of doing the job and is doing as she is told by her staff and higher ups to garner populist support.

One eyed Jack · 04-05-2022 02:28PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119014685#Comment_119014685

Two people go for a job as minister of justice.

…

Leave out parties, leave out sexes and just look at CV.

Which person in 2020 was more suitable to be minister for justice?

You left out the part where person B was offered the job, but turned it down -

At the general election in February 2020, O'Callaghan was re-elected as a TD for the Dublin Bay South constituency. In July 2020 O'Callaghan declined the position of Minister of State at the Department of Justice in the Government of the 33rd Dáil offered to him by Taoiseach Micheál Martin, stating that he wished to remain on the backbenches, providing a voice in Fianna Fáil outside of government, while also making the party more attractive to younger voters. In September 2020 O’Callaghan told RTÉ radio he was, in fact, interested in becoming the leader of Fianna Fáil following Martin.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_O%27Callaghan

Markus Antonius · 04-05-2022 03:37PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119014997#Comment_119014997

How you isolate people whos privacy does and doesn't matter is not 90+% of the generally law abiding population's problem.

But McEntee clearly feels it's worth dismissing the privacy of all to dispense justice to the few

Boggles · 04-05-2022 04:10PM

Attractive young lady in a position of power.

Incel Catnip.

mikethecop · 04-05-2022 04:35PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119015545#Comment_119015545

so at the end of the day , those crimes that could be prevented and prosecuted using the laws and procedures in question will go undetected and unpunished and the victims continue to be victimized.

total privacy comes with a price , you just have to be wiling to pay that price

I would say realistically its more like 99 percent of people who's information would never be accessed.

Fandymo · 04-05-2022 04:46PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119015669#Comment_119015669

Attractive?? Maybe for a politician, but in general??

Should have gone to Specsavers mate!!

Fandymo · 04-05-2022 04:50PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119015757#Comment_119015757

People seem to be willing to pay that price. I know I am.

Markus Antonius · 04-05-2022 05:09PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119015829#Comment_119015829

I am too. All this talk of criminals getting off scott free is just fearmongering for people to surrender their privacy. Most people willfully surrender their rights/privacy anyway through ignorance of the law.

Overheal · 04-05-2022 05:12PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119013013#Comment_119013013

Why would you need facial recognition software to implement a community rating for busses? Bus passes can already be made to be uniquely identified passengers if necessary.

Some shops already have "community ratings" they plaster bad cheques and photos of bad people from their CCTV to keep out.

I don't think employers need to know your search history and the type of data brokering should be barred from hiring practices by law.

Health Insurance data broker access sounds like a whole thread in and of itself. Insurance companies need to have the banal ability to investigate potential fraud.

If a state entity for a necessary service sold citizen data to 3rd parties as a product or service I would revolt. That's separate from Freedom of Information requests.

Power gone to the head of Minister for Justice

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