Power gone to the head of Minister for Justice

Markus Antonius

Has anyone noticed the Minister for Justice, Helen McEntee pushing the boundaries further and further when it comes to trivialising people's privacy? And it's purely to boost her profile too which is the worst thing - taking a hardline approach, a "you have nothing fear if you have nothing to hide" approach to bolster her tough female politician image.

There have been more than a few instances in the past few months including this recent one of entering a europe-wide deal to share facial recognition data of those "suspected of committing a crime", not just criminals but even those simply suspected of doing so, which more or less could be anyone:

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40862525.html

But one that really sent shivers down my spine was an interview of Helen McEntee about two weeks ago when speaking about giving more powers to Gardai. She said "people's right to privacy is not as important as detecting crime"

https://www.rte.ie/news/2022/0411/1291550-garda-agsi-conference/

There are very few lines that could have come out of her mouth that would be more sinister than this.

Faugheen

All in favour of not catching criminals then.

The second piece was clearly in response to the ruling around the Graham Dwyer phone data issue. Didn't realise you were in favour of letting murderers roam the streets, OP.

But no, Helen McEntee is the big bad witch in this case.

astrofool

Do tell and explain the more sinister lines that were said. Implying them does not make for good discussion.

Strumms

What next, she’d be advocating that Gardai can rock up to a house and demand to search it without a warrant or probable cause ? A typical FG head…

Padre_Pio

If you have nothing to hide you've nothing to fear.

Except everyone has something to hide, or at least keep private. The end does not always justify the means.

mikethecop

I don't think it would be a bad thing to say people's right to privicy is less important that preventing crime certinally.

A peados right to privacy definitely comes second to his right to stalk children on line or download child porn.

I do agree though that mcentee is way out of her depth as minister for justice and is comming out with some very stupid ideas with litte compression of the effects .

Overheal

There have been more than a few instances in the past few months including this recent one of entering a europe-wide deal to share facial recognition data of those "suspected of committing a crime", not just criminals but even those simply suspected of doing so, which more or less could be anyone

Well, in legal parlance, everyone is only Suspected of a crime, until they are Convicted of one. They are innocent until proven guilty, at least in most countries anyway. It wouldn't do much good if the system could only share the information long after the criminal had already been caught and convicted.

"people's right to privacy is not as important as detecting crime"

Yikes even in the US, conservative justices have noped that one.

Markus Antonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119012839#Comment_119012839

Yes but everyone's right to privacy shouldn't be shelved to allow a few pedos to be found - there are many other ways of catching them.

This is my very point, McEntee is making the lazy options viable for the gardai and citing recent (and rare) criminal cases as justification. The worst part is that it seems to garner her more support than criticism, which means she's only going to get worse.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119012837#Comment_119012837

Yep. Only works if we can trust the authorities. And we can't.

What marketing company would FF/FG be selling your data to?

How do we know another Garda whistle-blower won't be under surveillance?

Can we trust private data won't be used to help insurance companies, REITS, preferred bidders for state contracts over rival bidders? Opens up a whole new slew of "lessons learned" opportunities.

And of course common or garden black mail where something may not be illegal but private.

And who knows if the next Garda working with drug dealers won't pass on sensitive information?

Its never as simple as "if you've nothing to hide you've nothing to worry about".

There are checks and balances in place for a reason.

NSAman

Gdpr? If you can’t use video cameras outside your own property or publish that footage without breaking GDPR… how is this different? Sorry facial recognition is a disgusting intrusion into non-criminal peoples lives!

drunkmonkey

“We want to encourage people to come forwards, not to force anybody to have to give up their property or accommodation.”

I don't like her language, she doesn't want to force people, it implies if she wanted to she would and could, a dangerous woman with a god complex.

cuttingtimber22

I am not quite sure I would make this about the Justice Minister herself.

But I think that a discussion on the broad issue of privacy is one that we should be having.

• how far should facial recognition software go? Do we want community rating e.g. to ban people from public transport?
• should an employer have access to someone’s search history? As mentioned above something may not be illegal but someone may make a moral judgementS
• should a health insurer have access to your shopping activities to determine alcohol consumption? Note that banks categorise spending and sell this data on.
• should a semi state company (an post) sell data on its customers?

Checks and balances are critical especially in this country where the vast majority of people cannot afford to use the court system.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119012922#Comment_119012922

It's not even that. She is just massively out of her depth and has been promoted to a position she should never have found herself in.

The woman has no real experience in anything beyond being a staffer for her father, was originally elected purely on parish pump name recognition when he died, and like Leo himself is part of the "New FG" more concerned with spin and soundbites, and chasing Twitter likes to boost their personal profiles in the pursuit of bigger and better things on their career bucket list.

It's not so much that she has a god complex than she is just bouncing from one half-baked kneejerk overreaction to the next, as she overcompensates to hide her inadequacies. But in a country where the MSM rarely questions most of it, never mind challenge it, she continues to fail upwards.

I fully expect her to become leader of FG yet and possibly even a future Taoiseach. We now live in a society where identity politics, quotas, box-ticking, and social media consensus matters above all else. We think things are bad now. Just wait until those things come to pass.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119013058#Comment_119013058

Totally agree. Completely out of her depth and is being found out.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058244380/power-gone-to-the-head-of-minister-for-justice

FG invoking Joseph Goebbels. How surprising.

timmyntc

She doesnt seem to have any appreciation for rights and freedoms - gives the impression that they are an impediment to catching criminals and surveilling people, rather than protections for the average man and woman on the street.

The government should not be able to mass surveil people for the prevention of crime, nor should they be able to do as they please with people's own private property. Minister for Justice is not one of those wishy washy portfolios like environment or culture where you just have to be seen to be doing something, the policies you enact as MoJ have real and lasting consequences on the nation. Second only to Public Expenditure in terms of the damage that can be done if you dont take the role seriously - at least for Public Expenditure they tend to have something at least mathematically literate.

Galwayguy35

Her appointment as Minister for Justice was just a box ticking exercise to show the Government were giving women more of the top jobs rather than any real ability to do the job.

Donald Trump

No point complaining now OP.

Sure George Soros and Bill Gates can already track you and read your mind using the magnets and chips they put into you with the so-called covid vaccine

agree that generally this govt hasnt done much to merit trust with erosion of privacy

seeing a shinner raise it as if butter wouldn't melt is enough to make one shudder all the same

Absolute Zero

She's an odd ball alright. She broadcasts on Twitter that she made a TikTok account.

Does she even know TikTok is CCP owned and a data collection app? Very strange for a justice minister to be supporting the same regimen that also is allies with the Russians and dare I say helping to fund and supply their war in Ukraine.

Would she happen to be using her work mobile phone as well to record her videos. I honestly thought that if you were in her position you would know better such a shame, playpus ☹️

jmayo

Two people go for a job as minister of justice.

Person A has following credentials:

Studied economics, politics, and law at Dublin City University (DCU) for three before graduating in 2007.

After graduating worked for a subsidiary of Citibank.

Returned in 2010, to complete a Masters in Journalism and Media Communications at Griffith College. (private, third level higher education college)

Then was assistant to their TD father for two years.

Then stood in by election caused by father's death and won seat in 2013.

Won seat in next general election 2016 and given role of Minister of State for Mental Health and Older People.

A year later, 2017, was given role as Minister of State for European Affairs (and was part of Brexit team).

Was elected as Vice-President of the European People's Party (EPP) in Nov 2019.

Person B has following credentials:

Has a BCL Law degree from UCD.

Has a master's degree in law and an M.Phil. in criminology from Sidney Sussex College, Cambridge University.

Sidney college for anyone that doesn't know is one of the Cambridge colleges, ranked half way.

Has 4th highest ranking for Nobel prizes won by Cambridge alumni.

Has a barrister-at-law degree from the King's Inns.

In 2000 represented a taoiseach in defamation proceedings appearing with two future attorney generals.

Was made a senior counsel in 2008.

Represented many high-profile clients in defamation cases and was involved in two of Ireland's largest commercial court disputes.

Served as legal advisor to major political party for 5 years.

Was elected as Dublin city councilor.

Was elected to Dail in 2016 and made opposition Spokesperson for Justice and Equality, even drafting legislation that was passed by the Oireachtas and became an Act.

In 2020 was re-elected to Dail.

Leave out parties, leave out sexes and just look at CV.

Which person in 2020 was more suitable to be minister for justice?

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119014685#Comment_119014685

Person B. Easily. But you haven't factored in "image, quota's" etc.

mikethecop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119012871#Comment_119012871

SO how do you isolate the people whos privacy doesn't matter from those who do ?

Online activity ranges from child porn to fraudsters to large and small scale drug dealing money laundering on an industrial scale with revolute all the way down to phone snatches . technology a part of the modern world and thus a part of the criminal world too.

the process to access information on a simple on line fraud scam is incredibly complex in both time and and money with warrants needed to access even the victims information because the banks dont want to cooperate. It could take months to investigate and trace information on something like two kids threatening each other on snapchat or similar only to be told that those companies dont recognize a warrant o court order from Irish courts . Making that easier faster and less impossible isnt a bad think.

Again i dont think she is capable of doing the job and is doing as she is told by her staff and higher ups to garner populist support.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119014685#Comment_119014685

Two people go for a job as minister of justice.

…

Leave out parties, leave out sexes and just look at CV.

Which person in 2020 was more suitable to be minister for justice?

You left out the part where person B was offered the job, but turned it down -

At the general election in February 2020, O'Callaghan was re-elected as a TD for the Dublin Bay South constituency. In July 2020 O'Callaghan declined the position of Minister of State at the Department of Justice in the Government of the 33rd Dáil offered to him by Taoiseach Micheál Martin, stating that he wished to remain on the backbenches, providing a voice in Fianna Fáil outside of government, while also making the party more attractive to younger voters. In September 2020 O’Callaghan told RTÉ radio he was, in fact, interested in becoming the leader of Fianna Fáil following Martin.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_O%27Callaghan

Markus Antonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119014997#Comment_119014997

How you isolate people whos privacy does and doesn't matter is not 90+% of the generally law abiding population's problem.

But McEntee clearly feels it's worth dismissing the privacy of all to dispense justice to the few

Boggles

Attractive young lady in a position of power.

Incel Catnip.

mikethecop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119015545#Comment_119015545

so at the end of the day , those crimes that could be prevented and prosecuted using the laws and procedures in question will go undetected and unpunished and the victims continue to be victimized.

total privacy comes with a price , you just have to be wiling to pay that price

I would say realistically its more like 99 percent of people who's information would never be accessed.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119015669#Comment_119015669

Attractive?? Maybe for a politician, but in general??

Should have gone to Specsavers mate!!

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119015757#Comment_119015757

People seem to be willing to pay that price. I know I am.

Markus Antonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119015829#Comment_119015829

I am too. All this talk of criminals getting off scott free is just fearmongering for people to surrender their privacy. Most people willfully surrender their rights/privacy anyway through ignorance of the law.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119013013#Comment_119013013

Why would you need facial recognition software to implement a community rating for busses? Bus passes can already be made to be uniquely identified passengers if necessary.

Some shops already have "community ratings" they plaster bad cheques and photos of bad people from their CCTV to keep out.

I don't think employers need to know your search history and the type of data brokering should be barred from hiring practices by law.

Health Insurance data broker access sounds like a whole thread in and of itself. Insurance companies need to have the banal ability to investigate potential fraud.

If a state entity for a necessary service sold citizen data to 3rd parties as a product or service I would revolt. That's separate from Freedom of Information requests.

Dyr

Sure lads, we have a long history of lowering the bar for the gardai due to their inability to secure convictions for the less straightfoward crimes

Nothing new here.

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119015941#Comment_119015941

The Gardai don’t secure any convictions.

jimwallace197

The sooner we have another election the better. The sooner one of those clowns in government does something to bring down the government the better. too

They're a plague, god, I thought Fianna Fail when they were in power for over 10 years was a bad thing for the country but these guys (Fine Gael) are setting new records.

What she is suggesting says that we should have complete trust & faith in the state. How about the last two garda commissioners resigning in disgrace & a justice minister too. How about Maurice McCabe (a garda whistleblower) having his life ruined as a result of the very force he worked for trying to smear him with false allegations of pedophilia. The state authorities and especially the gards need to do alot better with regaining the peoples trust before they even attempt to go down this road.

She is a very dangerous individual and was granted the position of justice minister because Varadkar wanted to continue the woke narrative he is determined to instill in this country, hence the hate crime legislation, etc.

Its time to leave Ireland & I say that with a heavy heart. A sick party who only came third in the last election have somehow made it into the most important positions in the land with a lame duck of a Taoiseach.

jimwallace197

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119015956#Comment_119015956

Dont be deliberately ambiguous. They do everything but.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119015978#Comment_119015978

They are neither Judge, Jury, or Prosecutor no.

If everything was left up to police we'd be in a very different wild west system of laws (and to hell with our rights, if it's all under the auspice of catching the bad guyz)

They do a lot, but not everything; sadly sometimes the lot they do may include an illegal interrogation or a breach of civil rights for example. Courts and laws and regulations exist for officers to check and balance this innate and understandable desire to catch criminals no matter the means. A Judge and Jury has to decide that what they did was lawful and that who they caught was a criminal.

We'll end up with chinese levels of surrveilence and curtailment of civil liberties

Like that time robert watt let the states secret collection of free travel data out of the hat,it was being used to try and catch a fraud rate of 0.0004%

https://www.noteworthy.ie/free-travel-data-5752187-May2022/

jimwallace197

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119016140#Comment_119016140

Come back to the real world. There're been more than a few instances over the years that not only are our police force not fit for purpose but they're heavily corrupt also and willing to do anything to get a conviction whether the party is innocent or not. See my previous example & plenty more. This new legislation will give them free rein. To top it off, theres already legislation in place that makes detectives immune from any prosecution in the investigation of a case.

Had an argument with a sibling, they'll be able to use this as evidence you're aggressive, someone sent you a dirty joke?evidence that you're some sort of deviant.

You're type of naive understanding of the consequences of legislation like this is one of the reasons why it gets enacted in the first place. Open your bloody eyes.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119012922#Comment_119012922

This, in a democratic society that’s just diabolical.

if that was China we’d be all over them criticising.

country is gone nuts.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119016228#Comment_119016228

Ah here now

Cuba

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119015669#Comment_119015669

Oh FFS, can you really do no better than that level of ballsology and actually respond to the points raised? Clearly not. Coveney is another parish pump dynastic gombeen man voted in because of his family name by parochial eejits in sympathy and in awe of such inanities and chancers. The Healy Raes have run that nonsense for two generations. Last time I looked they were all men.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119016544#Comment_119016544

You clearly missed the now deleted section of the thread which was “no doubt she will take another 9 month holiday” followed by a pile on of “ dear” and “love” jibes at anyone who expressed that that may be a somewhat objectionable view

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119014685#Comment_119014685

Just like I don't trust teachers as Ministers for Education, I don't trust lawyers as Minister for Justice.

Anybody who has been a barrister is completely unsuitable to be a Minister for Justice because they are linked to the justice establishment.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119017397#Comment_119017397

Anybody who has been a barrister is completely unsuitable to be a Minister for Justice because they are linked to the justice establishment.

And yet...

https://www.businesspost.ie/ireland/analysis-details-about-woulfe-appointment-damaging-for-mcentee-and-government-79f274f1

jmayo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119017397#Comment_119017397

Yet you are the one always telling us on the threads about how the new Childrens hospital how the top medical professionals who decided it's location are the ones we have to listen to????

Ever think they might not be the most suitable to make this decision as they very much have skin in the game ?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119015209#Comment_119015209

Ah FFS talk about twisting the facts.

He was offered the position of minister of state in the Dept of Justice and he would be answering to someone that is totally unqualified for the position.

It was a fooking insult and anyone that would take it would think very little of themselves.

Marcos

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119016544#Comment_119016544

Unfortunately that is about the level of intellectual rigour you get from certain posters who are unable to argue their point, so seek to deflect and call anyone that doesn't agree with them a racist/misogynist/transphobe/whatever else depending on the argument they are trying to defend.

Marcos

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119013058#Comment_119013058

I agree with all of this. But you forgot the bit where she said that she'd take in a Ukrainian refugee for the likes and when push comes to shove, she said no because they would be all alone in the wilds of North Meath. Or where she raised the spectre of confiscating property in order to house Ukrainian refugees. That's not the best election slogan now is it? We'll try not to take your land or property.

mikethecop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119016254#Comment_119016254

couldnt get off that speeding ticket again eh jim ? 😄

jimwallace197

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119019559#Comment_119019559

Surprise, surprise, when push came to shove, she found a convenient excuse not to take any refugees. I dont think refugees care where they're staying temporarily as long as they're safe & out of the way of bombs. First, it was I need to ask my husband and when she couldnt use that anymore, came up with a lame excuse. You'd swear to god Meath was siberia the way she was making it out to be.

Reminds me of Varadkar going on about going back to work in hospitals when the covid crisis hit. Ended up answering some phonecalls for a few days.

Its exactly what Fine Gael are about, optics but little to no substance.

jimwallace197

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119019954#Comment_119019954

I guess I dont know the right gards to get the points wiped off Mike. Should have played more GAA I suppose😂

mikethecop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119019975#Comment_119019975

or bought drink for the right politician ,

or perhaps not been caught .....