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Ukrainian refugees in Ireland - Megathread

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,899 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Releasing even more funny money into the system is exactly why we have such crippling inflation after two years of covid nonsense. Coupled with all the climate “change” nonsense that’s loaded cost onto energy and food- two basics of any functioning society. The last we need is even more petrol thrown in the fire.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,403 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    yes, again, this is the reason why our property markets are wrecked, public policy has been for decades now, to do whatever it takes to maintain asset price inflation, particularly in relation to property, and it worked, i.e. you got fcuked!

    theres sufficient research from respected sources that now confirms the creation of money, in particularly from central banks...

    inflation is largely due to supply and energy market shocks, virtually nothing to do with the money supply, as most money has gone towards asset markets, inflating their prices, and not towards chasing goods and services.....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52 ✭✭livingdgx


    Why do they have to be housed in fingal?

    the seaside towns have been destroyed by social housing over the past few years, they have made the areas increasingly violent and still we have to pay thousands to live out here. You have to work extremely hard to afford to live in malahide, howth, portmarnock, even skerries

    Can they not house them in the city? Where they’d probably rather be..



  • Posts: 16,208 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I always find it interesting the way people online embrace the extremes of economic theory, taking generalisations or minor aspects of economic procedures and applying them willy-nilly across the board. And then pushing it as being perfectly normal... while ignoring the core fundamentals of why money exists, and the place of value or trust in guaranteeing money as an asset to be used and accepted..

    Oh, and I didn't say "all money comes from investors". This is one of the reasons I tend to avoid engaging these kind of discussions with you. Any discussion about economics, money or anything similar needs to be specific, but also needs to have both parties engaging in what was stated.. not interjecting crap so they can refute that crap themselves.

    I'm not going to argue economic theory with you... because there's absolutely no point. I've seen you post this stuff before, and nothing anyone says will change your mind. Even slightly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,403 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    'investors' havent been using much money to create new goods and services, but to keep pushing up asset prices, share buy backs etc etc! all is not well in the world of 'investment'!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    Exactly. I bet that nearly everyone who advocates for this policy owns a home or is in some sort of security when it comes to housing. I'm personally in the opposite situation; I can't get a place to rent, and even if I could I'm not sure if I could afford it. I was honestly someone who cared about the housing problem before it impacted me directly, but once it hits you directly, the whole situation becomes even more sour. And the way that things are going we'll end up like some Asian nations, where many generations all have to live under the one roof because nobody can afford anything else. They say that we're in "progressive" times but all that I can see is everything going backwards.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,195 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    So turns out the story about vacant social housing been brought back for refugees is BS and was never considered.


    Weldone to all here who swallowed it and became permanently outraged.


    What a waste of energy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,899 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Long term where do you think Ukrainians will be housed?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,678 ✭✭✭Multipass


    It would be great if some upstanding citizens in Dublin would pledge their houses to students, trying to find accommodation right now is a shitshow, unless you’re wealthy. If only there was they same interest from our government, but I guess this isn’t an issue that gets brownie points from the EU ruling elite.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,899 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Housing was a disaster in Dublin nearly 20 years when I was in uni. Luckily there was some on campus a few years. Must be an absolute nightmare now



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,678 ✭✭✭Multipass


    Probably because there is a good reason for social housing to be vacant, the same reason that people on the list refuse offers. It wouldn’t be great press when the stories of abuse and violence from the neighbours came out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,232 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Thats an artificial construct of them versus us and about blaming all problems in Ireland on refugees and migrants.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,740 ✭✭✭DebDynamite


    This is the jarring thing... it’s been proposed that old convents, schools, hospitals, etc will be repurposed to accommodate Ukrainians...why wasn’t it ever proposed that these buildings could be used as student accommodation? Students don’t need their own houses or fancy apartments. The majority requiring accommodation away from home will go home at the weekend anyway.

    Every year we hear the same issues students have with trying to source affordable accommodation, and it’s just going to get harder every year now. Some people have no idea how difficult it is for students/families to finance a college education when they cannot continue to live at home during their studies. Some people have had to miss out on an education because of the cost, or get themselves into huge debt, and there’s very little help there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    It's more of a case if we can spend 3bn this year alone , possibly 9 billion+ over 3 years ,how come they couldn't find 3 billion for our homelessness problem , supports on childrens services , hospital waiting lists ,

    Not bringing in 100,000 + people over a short period to increase an already under stressed system



  • Posts: 16,208 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    It's not much better elsewhere. I've spoken to students in the college in Athlone and the vast majority are commuting because it's so damn expensive to get anything in Athlone itself. Oh, sometimes there's short-term deals, but over the longer periods it adds up to be too much. Seems like it's only really the foreign students able to afford the places near the college (anywhere else in town is beyond the means of most students).

    Whereas when I went there twenty odd years ago, most of the students were living in the surrounding areas, with only a few commuting.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,899 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    If I was doing a fairly generic degree that could be offered anywhere I’d avoid Dublin and probably cork completely. In fairness the degrees in the ex ITs are high standard now with a greater range. Like that in away, Used be quite a traditional route for where I come from (Kilkenny) to go to Dublin for college but now I reckon more and more are either commuting some days or going to Carlow or Waterford closerby.

    College life must be much more fragmented than when we there, also everyone seemed to live reasonably close by. Commuting was the exception or very short term



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,195 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    It was confirmed on RTE earlier the idea was never suggested by anyone in government or the relevant bodies.


    Someone peddled it and of course the media jumped on it as they knew it would cause outrage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,899 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Well there’s literally nowhere to house them. So it’s that or a plane back to Eastern Europe.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,899 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    It would be illogical to believe Ukrainians staying here longer term won’t be joining the already bursting public housing lists.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,740 ✭✭✭DebDynamite


    Here’s a place in South Dublin being repurposed to accommodate Ukrainians. 8km from UCD. A lot would take it if it was affordable for them.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/accommodation-centre-for-300-ukrainians-set-to-open-in-south-dublin-1.4852099



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,232 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    I dont disagree with any of what you are saying at all but the construct of "them versus us" is all about blame and about scapegoating and blaming "them" for being the root cause of all problems in Ireland.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,283 ✭✭✭✭zell12




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,574 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    It's a warehouse that will be used as a short term sorting hub, I'd be shocked if Students / Adults would pay to sleep in a large hall with dozens of other people for 7-9 months.

    Not to mention the various potential liability and safety concerns.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,899 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    If the taxpayer was providing it for free of course they would. Certain posters here show a breath taking out of touchness with just how woeful things are in housing



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    Bar one person on this thread, no one else is blaming Ukrainians or immigrants in general, nearly every person who has an issue here has an issue with the Irish state and the people who support these mindless policies. It's very sad that certain posters have to constantly make up positions, and then hold those positions against others, others who've never held those positions.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,232 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Im not making up a position though. You have literally constructed a "them versus us" of blame

    By "saving" them you're harming us


    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,232 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    You keep repeating this mantra as fact. Where is your evidence?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    No, that's aimed at people like yourself who want to play the savior, not them. The you're is the key term in that sentence that proves my point. Once again though, you've to resort to making stuff up. You also conveniently left out the part of that post where I mentioned helping in a more balanced way, instead of the approach we're taking now.

    The guilty will always be the Irish state and the supporters of these policies, not the people who benefit from them.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




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  • Posts: 16,208 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Why? Hostels provide similar types of dormitory or shared accommodation setups all around the world. Sure, they're mostly used by short-term tourists, but a lot of people working in foreign countries will use them (for longer periods) because of the relative lower costs, and the community they get to involve themselves with. I did it myself in Australia for five months. Wouldn't do it again, but then, I'm not a young man anymore, whereas those in their late teens or early 20s can put up with more than us older folk.

    A bit of planning/organisation would get past the liability and safety considerations.



This discussion has been closed.
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