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Ukrainian Refugees in Ireland - what you say?

  • 21-04-2022 6:16pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,940 ✭✭✭sporina


    Mate of mine raging about hotels being used to house Ukrainian Refugees in his local town - says there will be less tourists - less spending in the town... and about how he's trying to buy a house and that they will push the prices up? (that I do not get at all???)...

    I'm doing my best not to argue with him.. but IMO.. they are fleeing for their lives.. I am actually astonished at his selfishness - but I dare not say that to him obv.. gee..

    Are there others who think like him?

    Post edited by Beasty on


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,045 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Your friend maybe wants to do some research before doing hot takes like refugees == no more room

    its not as though Irelands tourism industry is operating very under capacity… he’s talking about around 25,000 Ukraine refugees against a hospitality industry that more than has the space available, you’d get more people in town for Garth Brooks





  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    "I'm ragin' Joe, just ragin'. Bloody foreigners coming over here and taking our hotel rooms."

    Am I doing it right?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Do we really need another thread on this topic?

    To answer your question, yes there are some vocal, poorly educated and travelled folks who would agree with him, typically those with a very narrow scope of life experiences.

    Most have no issues with them coming here for the reasons you stated



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,102 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Its difficult. There are no easy answers to this. Some of his concerns are completely understandable. The tourism industry will struggle hugely if alternative accommodation to hotels isnt found and yes we do have a huge housing crisis. I feel sorry for him (in relation to struggling to buy a house) and can sympathise with him completely however I couldnt agree agree with his choosing to vilify and blame refugees for it all. These people are coming from horrendous circumstances way worse than his. The housing crisis has been all the governments fault. The government dont really know what to do about housing refugees. There are no easy answers but villifying a vulnerable minority group only ends up making matters ways worse because your friend will end up blindly blaming refugees for every ill in Irish society. This will then if it is allowed to fester generally will cause huge tensions nationally.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 323 ✭✭sonar44


    It appears there is little to no allowance made for people who feel absolutely no animosity to refugees on a personal level, quite the opposite in fact, but who are nonetheless concerned about the wider implications of an unprecedented population transfer with no apparent limits.

    It's just a discussion. Something more important is bound to come along.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,172 ✭✭✭screamer


    I say we help them as practically as possible. However, when you read stuff like TDs saying they don’t want to force people to give up their property you wonder. We should take in as many refugees from Ukraine as we practically can, and if all EU countries did likewise I think there’s enough capacity to help them all. But taking in more than we can practically provide for helps no one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,045 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Unprecedented?

    Ireland has taken refugees before, 25k refugees is not unprecedented

    Ireland has also rejected refugees before, too, like Jews who were fleeing Nazi Germany



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,922 ✭✭✭SouthWesterly


    There's a lot to be said for another mass.. Sorry., meant thread 😁



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,669 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    Its good we are helping fellow Europeans fleeing a war, at least we know they are genuine unlike the other chancers who show up with made up stories.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,045 ✭✭✭✭Overheal




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,796 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    We are a country with national debt of 237 billion as of early this year anyway….it’s costs about 6 billion a year to service that debt.

    Now over a couple of months there will be tens of thousands coming here.

    yesterday Helen McEntee stated.. “ there will be no cap “..

    everybody practically will need and be entitled to housing, medical cards, free transport, etc.

    if you have a person from the Ukraine given a medical card, they have even a minor complaint they’re going to be kicking down the door of their GP for a referral, for everything from physiotherapy to procedures… why not, it’s free…

    to them it is… while taxpayers who enable the health services are going to be on chronic waiting lists for everything.


    Citizens of this country have been and for decades are being thrown head first under a bus. Strap in, this is seriously going to be a rough life.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,045 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    yes, it must be so inconvenient to have your way of life mildly inconvenienced… 🤔 oh no your GP might have more patients to see for non emergency care? Horror - at least you still have hospitals to speak of





  • Registered Users Posts: 547 ✭✭✭shillyshilly


    had a trip down the country booked, we had 4 rooms in a cheap hotel, and were told they were now cancelled as it became a government nominated hotel for refugees.

    Couldn't care in the slightest, it's mostly women and children entering. If Ireland are going to sit on the neutral fence, it's the least we can do.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,102 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    If you believe its a "population transfer" then that is personal animosity because you are viewing the individual as lesser because of who they are.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,172 ✭✭✭screamer


    Sorry to tell you, leaving refugees aside, more world population = less for everyone. Too much pressure on all sides money/ natural resources/ food. **** getting real already look at how young people can only aspire to own a home compared to their parents. That’s the future we all face, a dog eat dog world.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,796 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Hospitals, yeah with chronic waiting lists and departments and services closed due to lack of funding.

    no point in having a hospital if you can’t avail of its services. Which will be an even greater challenge now.

    here is an emotive photo from Kabul…

    “There will be no cap”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,045 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    This thread has nothing to do with Kabul or Afghanistan.

    If Ireland needs additional resources to provide for these refugees I’m confident it can ask the international community and we will respond.



  • Registered Users Posts: 323 ✭✭sonar44



    It is a population transfer - there is nothing remotely incorrect in the term unless you are looking extremely hard and if you are looking that hard, you probably have a few issues with strangers yourself.

    It's just a discussion. Something more important is bound to come along.



  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭bertiebomber


    At 25k we are now at our capacity and unfortunately we are now going to resort to using an equestrian arena in Millstreet Co Cork so in effect we will have camps which is grand now facing into summer but not in winter.

    Rodders o Gormon admitted we are running out of space for them yet he insists we continue to take as many as we can. still believing 200k is a good number, i dont know who supplies his recreational goodies but its seriously bad stuff and effecting the brain & ability to be logical & rational.

    The next step will be mandates on the houses who boasted having 5 + bedrooms in the census !! ! Watch this space ........you will own nothing and you will be happy !!!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,124 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    People will have to accept that the high point of public services, workers rights etc has been passed, that's not a good thing.


    As always it will fall hardest on the bottom half and the top half where the activists and those screaming about solidarity and empathy tend to be often benefit.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,546 ✭✭✭✭Poor Uncle Tom


    Vlad won't like it, that's all I'm sayin' Ted.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭Jarhead_Tendler


    The hotel in our town hasn't got tourists in years any way. May as well make use of the space.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,102 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    I didnt say the term is "incorrect" . Its a very ideologically biased term in how it views people. Its dehumanising, treating people as lesser and a threat. So yeah no sorry this whole "no personal animosity" claim is nonsense really when you are labelling people in such a way.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,102 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 323 ✭✭sonar44



    What?


    Populations are composed of people. Large transfers of people create challenges that are indifferent to what the individual people are like.

    It's just a discussion. Something more important is bound to come along.





  • Supply was bad before. It will be even worse now.

    At a basic level I understand your friends frustration. If you have you own property, don't even bother trying to understand.

    At the core of it, we should be able to cater for everyone and we simply won't be able to.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,045 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    That’s like calling a bombing campaign a fuel transfer. The implication you are pushing is evidently sinister in tone.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,068 ✭✭✭Murph85


    We will look like good Europeans and property prices and rents will soar further. No wonder they haven't placed a cap on the numbers...



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,841 ✭✭✭buried


    Come off it. How is what that poster said in any way "sinister in tone"? Just because they don't agree to having a refugee influx into this country with "No limits" on the size of its number? There are serious questions and concerns that need to be asked and addressed here before some inexperienced head the ball such as the likes of Minister McEntee starts coming out with non-sensical and dangerous statements like the one's she blathered out today.

    "You have disgraced yourselves again" - W. B. Yeats



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  • Registered Users Posts: 323 ✭✭sonar44



    I'm not looking for a mind reader's opinion, thanks.


    I'm posting in plain English. If you don't like or understand the words, tough.

    It's just a discussion. Something more important is bound to come along.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,413 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    We are also a country that reduced our national debt from 124% down to 78% in line with Germany, a country with a per capita GDP 40% higher than the UK, A country that year on year produces positive and growing balances of trade. We are one of two countries the would have a strong national currency were the Euro to break up, according to Swiss economists.

    outside your ‘a poor me’ bubble, by anyone’s we are in a strong economic position that does not justify a refusal to help at this time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,102 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Your words are understood. You are trying to paint yourself as not against refugees personally but the words you use prove different.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,548 ✭✭✭MFPM


    It seems you'd fit in well with the friend of the OP author..



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,678 ✭✭✭Multipass


    Funnily enough I lied on the number of bedrooms question on the census - just in case it became relevant to the property tax.

    I agree with you on the rest, our leaders have lost what was left of their minds - just carry on borrowing and sink us all seems to be the plan.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,796 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Nobody is saying don’t help, I’m saying limitless help as is proposed is bad.

    we are not in a strong economic position. We are 31st out of 211 global states for debt.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,841 ✭✭✭buried


    What about mental health services for these people? People that are literally thrown into a world of destruction, death and chaos, and McEntee thinks its a great idea to bring hundreds of thousands of these traumatised people here where not only the basic day to day public healthcare service is a total mismanaged $hitpile, but a place where the mental health services are resigned to a level of some sort of brushed under the carpet, mismanaged, underfunded, under-resourced, un-caring, ultra-hyper $hitpile. But that wouldn't come into her brain at the minute because the agenda to virtue signal to mental health awareness only happens every now and again when some other goon from her disingenuous circle wants to make a PR agenda out of that for a day or two, and then they can all forget about it again, like they do everything else, because ultimately it doesn't affect them.

    This is serious stuff. Serious questions need to be asked about the capability of our under-funded infrastructure right across the board to deal with this. Not just come out with the vapid faux virtue claptrap she came out with today. And calling it out is not "sinister", its actually being prudent about what we can actually do and not make matters worse for literally everybody.

    "You have disgraced yourselves again" - W. B. Yeats



  • Registered Users Posts: 323 ✭✭sonar44



    I think you are confusing the meaning of the words with your chosen, uncharitable misrepresentation.


    I suspect this is not really about refugees for you, but about you and how you are perceived.


    200,000 additional lovely people put just as much a strain on resources as 200,000 additional nasty people. Stop making it about them personally.

    It's just a discussion. Something more important is bound to come along.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,045 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Sinister was a poor choice of words. Hard these days to discern when someone is just talking pragmatically or when they’re trying to reference Replacement Theory again or something. If not I apologize and please disregard.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,940 ✭✭✭sporina


    mate since apologised and said he was having a bad day. glad I didn't argue with him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,661 ✭✭✭quokula


    What alternative are you suggesting? They might not get speedy access to mental health facilities if taken somewhere safe so better to leave them there to be raped and murdered by the invaders instead?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,940 ✭✭✭sporina




  • Posts: 0 Raylan Big Pooch


    we have let bogus asylum seekers take up public housing for years, and now when an actual crisis happens we cant help genuine asylum seekers



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,189 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe



    We can barely move for luxury SUVs on our roads, but some war-stricken refugees arrive and individuals start acting like we're living in a third world country on the brink



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭John Doe1


    We need to accommodate as many as we can. But any idiot can see there needs to be an upper limit. We are not living in some fairytale world where we can accomodate a million refugees and still be living in a first world nation.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    we have let bogus asylum seekers take up public housing for years

    Got anything to back up that nonsense?



  • Posts: 0 Raylan Big Pooch


    common knowledge at this stage, unless you have been living under a rock



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The amnesty is proof



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,102 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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